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JA: An Unconventional Alliance

Post by Abavi on 2013-07-03, 11:17

At a time when practices like Jauhar and Saki were seen to be more courageous and prefered to than to be harassed by the enemy... King Bharmal chooses to go for an alliance with Kng Akbar... The first of its kind...
 
who would have initiated this? Was it Akbar? or was it King Bharmal?
 
To think of the state of mind of Princess Jodha at the verge of almost being sold off to save all her sisters/mothers and aunts for this self molestation is so sad yet commanding is her courage to accept something like this...
 
She is yet to know about Akbar... eventually she did fall in love with him.. But still to walk into the harem of a man whom she hated(read loathed), accepting to be his wife, to be called one of his women... would have been so hurtful for her ego isnt it?
 
and love is weird... inspite of all that - it did bloom between them!


Last edited by Abavi on 2013-07-03, 12:22; edited 1 time in total

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Re: JA: An Unconventional Alliance

Post by riyya6 on 2013-07-03, 11:25

nice post....:)  but in my view having an opportunity to do something for her people even by sacrificing herself was a great thing to do, which makes u feel great more than hurtfull to her ego....

Looking at the promo of the show for JA serial, seems like Jalal asks for jodha in return... but in the movie it was king bharmal... In history dunno what happen Question 

but vi did love really blossom or it was just prediction falkfore on this... We never knew what happen... Mayb she was not in love at all but accepted her fate n lived.... Question 

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Re: JA: An Unconventional Alliance

Post by Tanthya on 2013-07-03, 11:32

Vi, we are speaking so cuz we , The Present women have a voice in the way how their life runs * not everywhere*but in those days, women were part of equation .. was Jodha given any option  to decline or accept the proposal?? I do not think so, she was simply parceled off like a object that would secure them freedom...

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Re: JA: An Unconventional Alliance

Post by Abavi on 2013-07-03, 11:34

Riyya, Those times, When the victory was eminent, the mughal rulers normally took all the royal ladies to their own Harem.. This was first challeged with Queen Padmini opting for Jaguar when Khilji attacked chittor and she knew loss was eminent for her husband, King Rawal Ratan Singh.

It was then this practise was found to be more honourary amongst Rajput circles... Even here, the ladies are proud and wouldnt let themselves to be molested and ravished by mughal kings...

They would prefer death than a life like that... Do you really think that Princess would have been happier to do something like giving herself to Akbar? The women folk would have preferred death than this... Was Jodha's mother happy?

and Again I think the alliance would have come from Akbar himself ... and King Bharmal would have accepted this after a lots of thoughts... though this wasnt acceptable amongst the rajput honorary standards... then when they saw that the queen was actually happy, the other Rajput kings followed...

Yeah, but it is generally accepted that Jodha was Akbar's favorite queen... They must have had something that other wives of Akbar did not share with him...

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Re: JA: An Unconventional Alliance

Post by pollyanna on 2013-07-03, 11:36

Vi....I watched the first epi yesterday...and yeah..am kinda hooked.....liked it...with all the faults too Wink 

Who is Jaguar and Saki Question sorry...am learning the names....

Am sure this unconventional alliance will be interpreted by Czarina in her own isstyle.... Wink

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Re: JA: An Unconventional Alliance

Post by Abavi on 2013-07-03, 11:39

Tanthya wrote:Vi, we are speaking so cuz we , The Present women have a voice in the way how their life runs * not everywhere*but in those days, women were part of equation .. was Jodha given any option  to decline or accept the proposal?? I do not think so, she was simply parceled off like a object that would secure them freedom...
Right Tants, Her voice was not given importance... But then, how would have a Rajput king accepted this offer when it was taken for granted amongst Rajputs that death was more preferrable than this... Where was the valour that goes with the Rajput men?

Was it Akbar who played a vital role in projecting that this was not something to be ashamed off? What happened that King Bharmal was convinced that this act was honorary?

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Re: JA: An Unconventional Alliance

Post by sarra0 on 2013-07-03, 11:43

She knows sacrifices would be required, part and parcel of being the eldest, the kings daughter.. but wouldn't have realised wat that would mean... she wouldn't have had a choice... one for the whole...so akbar wants her in the harem..I take it it is her side that says marriage wen talk starts...

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Re: JA: An Unconventional Alliance

Post by sarra0 on 2013-07-03, 11:45

Abavi wrote:
Tanthya wrote:Vi, we are speaking so cuz we , The Present women have a voice in the way how their life runs * not everywhere*but in those days, women were part of equation .. was Jodha given any option  to decline or accept the proposal?? I do not think so, she was simply parceled off like a object that would secure them freedom...
Right Tants, Her voice was not given importance... But then, how would have a Rajput king accepted this offer when it was taken for granted amongst Rajputs that death was more preferrable than this... Where was the valour that goes with the Rajput men?

Was it Akbar who played a vital role in projecting that this was not something to be ashamed off? What happened that King Bharmal was convinced that this act was honorary?

May be it was less about the men and more they thought they would die and then wat would happen to the women, kids...so this way they don't fight..life remains relatively similar...

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Re: JA: An Unconventional Alliance

Post by Abavi on 2013-07-03, 11:45

pollyanna wrote:Vi....I watched the first epi yesterday...and yeah..am kinda hooked.....liked it...with all the faults too Wink 

Who is Jaguar and Saki Question sorry...am learning the names....

Am sure this unconventional alliance will be interpreted by Czarina in her own isstyle.... Wink
Not who Pallo, What.. It is a practice of mass self molestation of royal women and children of Rajput rulers when they come to know that the victory is eminent for the opposition party.

Normally the rajput kings would want to protect their women folk who otherwise would have to face humiliation and what not in the hands of the opposition(read Mughal rulers) In order to free them of this worry, the Rajput queens of those times decided to self kill themselves when they knew that the defeat was at their doorstep.

This would give their men folks more fury to go ahead and face the battle until their last breath as they have nothing to lose now... This is called saki...

Tants has made a post on this in Maharana Pratap forum...

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Re: JA: An Unconventional Alliance

Post by Abavi on 2013-07-03, 11:47

sarra0 wrote:
Abavi wrote:
Tanthya wrote:Vi, we are speaking so cuz we , The Present women have a voice in the way how their life runs * not everywhere*but in those days, women were part of equation .. was Jodha given any option  to decline or accept the proposal?? I do not think so, she was simply parceled off like a object that would secure them freedom...
Right Tants, Her voice was not given importance... But then, how would have a Rajput king accepted this offer when it was taken for granted amongst Rajputs that death was more preferrable than this... Where was the valour that goes with the Rajput men?

Was it Akbar who played a vital role in projecting that this was not something to be ashamed off? What happened that King Bharmal was convinced that this act was honorary?
May be it was less about the men and more they thought they would die and then wat would happen to the women, kids...so this way they don't fight..life remains relatively similar...
Obviously this should have been the thought process Sarra.. It is surprising because those days they didnt think rationally like this... It was pride and valour which had more importance... More importance than life itself... It was an unconventional decision-first of its kind!

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Re: JA: An Unconventional Alliance

Post by riyya6 on 2013-07-03, 11:50

Abavi wrote:Riyya, Those times, When the victory was eminent, the mughal rulers normally took all the royal ladies to their own Harem.. This was first challeged with Queen Padmini opting for Jaguar when Khilji attacked chittor and she knew loss was eminent for her husband, King Rawal Ratan Singh.

It was then this practise was found to be more honourary amongst Rajput circles... Even here, the ladies are proud and wouldnt let themselves to be molested and ravished by mughal kings...

They would prefer death than a life like that... Do you really think that Princess would have been happier to do something like giving herself to Akbar? The women folk would have preferred death than this... Was Jodha's mother happy?

and Again I think the alliance would have come from Akbar himself ... and King Bharmal would have accepted this after a lots of thoughts... though this wasnt acceptable amongst the rajput honorary standards... then when they saw that the queen was actually happy, the other Rajput kings followed...

Yeah, but it is generally accepted that Jodha was Akbar's favorite queen... They must have had something that other wives of Akbar did not share with him...
u got a point 2... but guys royal ladies to their own harem.... was it not by marriage Shocked ....

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Re: JA: An Unconventional Alliance

Post by Tanthya on 2013-07-03, 11:54

pollyanna wrote:Vi....I watched the first epi yesterday...and yeah..am kinda hooked.....liked it...with all the faults too Wink 

Who is Jaguar and Saki Question sorry...am learning the names....

Am sure this unconventional alliance will be interpreted by Czarina in her own isstyle.... Wink

Not Jaguar and Saki !!! I guess Vi's autocorrect is doing Adham Khan !! I think she meant Jauhar and Sati !!


Pallo, Already Czarina has begun to give it her Tadka, which Rajputana ppl'z worshiped Kali Maata?? I thought Kali worshipers were to the east, while Rajputana's worshiped Amba

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Re: JA: An Unconventional Alliance

Post by pollyanna on 2013-07-03, 11:57

Abavi wrote:
pollyanna wrote:Vi....I watched the first epi yesterday...and yeah..am kinda hooked.....liked it...with all the faults too Wink 

Who is Jaguar and Saki Question sorry...am learning the names....

Am sure this unconventional alliance will be interpreted by Czarina in her own isstyle.... Wink
Not who Pallo, What.. It is a practice of mass self molestation of royal women and children of Rajput rulers when they come to know that the victory is eminent for the opposition party.

Normally the rajput kings would want to protect their women folk who otherwise would have to face humiliation and what not in the hands of the opposition(read Mughal rulers) In order to free them of this worry, the Rajput queens of those times decided to self kill themselves when they knew that the defeat was at their doorstep.

This would give their men folks more fury to go ahead and face the battle until their last breath as they have nothing to lose now... This is called saki...

Tants has made a post on this in Maharana Pratap forum...

Thanks Vi ..muaaahh...hug1 

knew about jauhar practice(its one of the most talked about tale when Rajputs are concerned, the old timers often give such examples, also Sati.... to young ones like us Rolling Eyes ) but Saki....i dint know.. 

Rajasthan Rajputs (the ones who refuse to differentiate between the modern times culture and traditions and the ancient age practices) are still not over the medieval age Evil or Very Mad 

Anyways..this is off topic :)

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Re: JA: An Unconventional Alliance

Post by pollyanna on 2013-07-03, 12:03

Tanthya wrote:
pollyanna wrote:Vi....I watched the first epi yesterday...and yeah..am kinda hooked.....liked it...with all the faults too Wink 

Who is Jaguar and Saki Question sorry...am learning the names....

Am sure this unconventional alliance will be interpreted by Czarina in her own isstyle.... Wink

Not Jaguar and Saki !!! I guess Vi's autocorrect is doing Adham Khan !!  I think she meant Jauhar and Sati !!


Pallo, Already Czarina has begun to give it her Tadka, which Rajputana ppl'z worshiped Kali Maata?? I thought Kali worshipers were to the east, while Rajputana's worshiped Amba

hehehhehe....this typo Rolling Eyes  i thot u all have named some characters as jaguar and Saki :P or its a short form of some characters  Wink

Yup Sathu...true that.....Czarina is a worshipper of Kali....in all her shows, Goddess Kali has to make her presence felt...and hence here too Amba turns into Kali.....whereas in reality...Amer/Amber got its name coz of the followers of Amba in that state :)

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Re: JA: An Unconventional Alliance

Post by Abavi on 2013-07-03, 12:16

riyya6 wrote:
Abavi wrote:Riyya, Those times, When the victory was eminent, the mughal rulers normally took all the royal ladies to their own Harem.. This was first challeged with Queen Padmini opting for Jaguar when Khilji attacked chittor and she knew loss was eminent for her husband, King Rawal Ratan Singh.

It was then this practise was found to be more honourary amongst Rajput circles... Even here, the ladies are proud and wouldnt let themselves to be molested and ravished by mughal kings...

They would prefer death than a life like that... Do you really think that Princess would have been happier to do something like giving herself to Akbar? The women folk would have preferred death than this... Was Jodha's mother happy?

and Again I think the alliance would have come from Akbar himself ... and King Bharmal would have accepted this after a lots of thoughts... though this wasnt acceptable amongst the rajput honorary standards... then when they saw that the queen was actually happy, the other Rajput kings followed...

Yeah, but it is generally accepted that Jodha was Akbar's favorite queen... They must have had something that other wives of Akbar did not share with him...
u got a point 2... but guys royal ladies to their own harem.... was it not by marriage Shocked ....
Who knows... The pricipal queens might have been married off... but most of them were concubines..

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Re: JA: An Unconventional Alliance

Post by Abavi on 2013-07-03, 12:19

Tanthya wrote:
pollyanna wrote:Vi....I watched the first epi yesterday...and yeah..am kinda hooked.....liked it...with all the faults too Wink 

Who is Jaguar and Saki Question sorry...am learning the names....

Am sure this unconventional alliance will be interpreted by Czarina in her own isstyle.... Wink

Not Jaguar and Saki !!! I guess Vi's autocorrect is doing Adham Khan !!  I think she meant Jauhar and Sati !!


Pallo, Already Czarina has begun to give it her Tadka, which Rajputana ppl'z worshiped Kali Maata?? I thought Kali worshipers were to the east, while Rajputana's worshiped Amba
:lol!:  yeah, I meant to say Jauhar...


Maa Kali makes her presence felt amongst Rajputs too... :)

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Re: JA: An Unconventional Alliance

Post by Abavi on 2013-07-03, 12:21

Corrected the main post...

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Re: JA: An Unconventional Alliance

Post by sarra0 on 2013-07-03, 12:25

Abavi wrote:
sarra0 wrote:
Abavi wrote:
Tanthya wrote:Vi, we are speaking so cuz we , The Present women have a voice in the way how their life runs * not everywhere*but in those days, women were part of equation .. was Jodha given any option  to decline or accept the proposal?? I do not think so, she was simply parceled off like a object that would secure them freedom...
Right Tants, Her voice was not given importance... But then, how would have a Rajput king accepted this offer when it was taken for granted amongst Rajputs that death was more preferrable than this... Where was the valour that goes with the Rajput men?

Was it Akbar who played a vital role in projecting that this was not something to be ashamed off? What happened that King Bharmal was convinced that this act was honorary?
May be it was less about the men and more they thought they would die and then wat would happen to the women, kids...so this way they don't fight..life remains relatively similar...
Obviously this should have been the thought process Sarra.. It is surprising because those days they didnt think rationally like this... It was pride and valour which had more importance... More importance than life itself... It was an unconventional decision-first of its kind!

Very true fighting and dying on the battlefield was an honour... he was a king before his time..

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Re: JA: An Unconventional Alliance

Post by Abavi on 2013-07-03, 12:46

sarra0 wrote:
Very true fighting and dying on the battlefield was an honour... he was a king before his time..
And still he decided to go for this alliance...

Did Akbar play a role? who suggested it first? what was the state of mind for them at that juncture... very curious!

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Re: JA: An Unconventional Alliance

Post by Tanthya on 2013-07-03, 13:11

sarra0 wrote:
Abavi wrote:
sarra0 wrote:
Abavi wrote:
Tanthya wrote:Vi, we are speaking so cuz we , The Present women have a voice in the way how their life runs * not everywhere*but in those days, women were part of equation .. was Jodha given any option  to decline or accept the proposal?? I do not think so, she was simply parceled off like a object that would secure them freedom...
Right Tants, Her voice was not given importance... But then, how would have a Rajput king accepted this offer when it was taken for granted amongst Rajputs that death was more preferrable than this... Where was the valour that goes with the Rajput men?

Was it Akbar who played a vital role in projecting that this was not something to be ashamed off? What happened that King Bharmal was convinced that this act was honorary?
May be it was less about the men and more they thought they would die and then wat would happen to the women, kids...so this way they don't fight..life remains relatively similar...
Obviously this should have been the thought process Sarra.. It is surprising because those days they didnt think rationally like this... It was pride and valour which had more importance... More importance than life itself... It was an unconventional decision-first of its kind!

Very true fighting and dying on the battlefield was an honour... he was a king before his time..

Rajputs were always high on emotion's and most of the battles that they waged needlessly was due to their percieved slight to their Ego, their pride, and their valor...Had they been a united front .. Not one Mughal or Afghani would have taken a step in..They lost the sovereignty cuz of their constant infighting

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Re: JA: An Unconventional Alliance

Post by Tanthya on 2013-07-03, 13:17

Abavi wrote:
sarra0 wrote:
Very true fighting and dying on the battlefield was an honour... he was a king before his time..
And still he decided to go for this alliance...

Did Akbar play a role? who suggested it first? what was the state of mind for them at that juncture... very curious!

Could be council of ministers !!

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Re: JA: An Unconventional Alliance

Post by Tanthya on 2013-07-03, 13:30

pollyanna wrote:
Tanthya wrote:
pollyanna wrote:Vi....I watched the first epi yesterday...and yeah..am kinda hooked.....liked it...with all the faults too Wink 

Who is Jaguar and Saki Question sorry...am learning the names....

Am sure this unconventional alliance will be interpreted by Czarina in her own isstyle.... Wink

Not Jaguar and Saki !!! I guess Vi's autocorrect is doing Adham Khan !!  I think she meant Jauhar and Sati !!


Pallo, Already Czarina has begun to give it her Tadka, which Rajputana ppl'z worshiped Kali Maata?? I thought Kali worshipers were to the east, while Rajputana's worshiped Amba

hehehhehe....this typo Rolling Eyes  i thot u all have named some characters as jaguar and Saki :P or its a short form of some characters  Wink

Yup Sathu...true that.....Czarina is a worshipper of Kali....in all her shows, Goddess Kali has to make her presence felt...and hence here too Amba turns into Kali.....whereas in reality...Amer/Amber got its name coz of the followers of Amba in that state :)

Also we have that Prophecy person too ..the one who always is scary but gives 100% accurate prediction :P :P 

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Re: JA: An Unconventional Alliance

Post by Abavi on 2013-07-03, 13:35

Tanthya wrote:
pollyanna wrote:
Tanthya wrote:
pollyanna wrote:Vi....I watched the first epi yesterday...and yeah..am kinda hooked.....liked it...with all the faults too Wink 

Who is Jaguar and Saki Question sorry...am learning the names....

Am sure this unconventional alliance will be interpreted by Czarina in her own isstyle.... Wink

Not Jaguar and Saki !!! I guess Vi's autocorrect is doing Adham Khan !!  I think she meant Jauhar and Sati !!


Pallo, Already Czarina has begun to give it her Tadka, which Rajputana ppl'z worshiped Kali Maata?? I thought Kali worshipers were to the east, while Rajputana's worshiped Amba

hehehhehe....this typo Rolling Eyes  i thot u all have named some characters as jaguar and Saki :P or its a short form of some characters  Wink

Yup Sathu...true that.....Czarina is a worshipper of Kali....in all her shows, Goddess Kali has to make her presence felt...and hence here too Amba turns into Kali.....whereas in reality...Amer/Amber got its name coz of the followers of Amba in that state :)

Also we have that Prophecy person too ..the one who always is scary but gives 100% accurate prediction :P :P 
Her prophecies are mindblowing hilarious...
 
Particularly when she said that when Jodha's name is mentioned in history it will be for love... It was hilarious... Its obvious that it is made up... She should have added that there would be controversies against her name... and she would not be mentioned so much in records as she was a rajput by birth...

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Re: JA: An Unconventional Alliance

Post by Tanthya on 2013-07-03, 14:01

Abavi wrote:
Tanthya wrote:
pollyanna wrote:
Tanthya wrote:
pollyanna wrote:Vi....I watched the first epi yesterday...and yeah..am kinda hooked.....liked it...with all the faults too Wink 

Who is Jaguar and Saki Question sorry...am learning the names....

Am sure this unconventional alliance will be interpreted by Czarina in her own isstyle.... Wink

Not Jaguar and Saki !!! I guess Vi's autocorrect is doing Adham Khan !!  I think she meant Jauhar and Sati !!


Pallo, Already Czarina has begun to give it her Tadka, which Rajputana ppl'z worshiped Kali Maata?? I thought Kali worshipers were to the east, while Rajputana's worshiped Amba

hehehhehe....this typo Rolling Eyes  i thot u all have named some characters as jaguar and Saki :P or its a short form of some characters  Wink

Yup Sathu...true that.....Czarina is a worshipper of Kali....in all her shows, Goddess Kali has to make her presence felt...and hence here too Amba turns into Kali.....whereas in reality...Amer/Amber got its name coz of the followers of Amba in that state :)

Also we have that Prophecy person too ..the one who always is scary but gives 100% accurate prediction :P :P 
Her prophecies are mindblowing hilarious...
 
Particularly when she said that when Jodha's name is mentioned in history it will be for love... It was hilarious... Its obvious that it is made up... She should have added that there would be controversies against her name... and she would not be mentioned so much in records as she was a rajput by birth...

& Keel the romantic spirit affraid ..Boy, VI...You don't want authentic history lessons , Do you??

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Re: JA: An Unconventional Alliance

Post by Abavi on 2013-07-03, 14:05

Tanthya wrote:
Abavi wrote:
sarra0 wrote:
Very true fighting and dying on the battlefield was an honour... he was a king before his time..
And still he decided to go for this alliance...

Did Akbar play a role? who suggested it first? what was the state of mind for them at that juncture... very curious!

Could be council of ministers !!
From which side? Mughals wouldnt dream of bringing a hindu queen for their beloved Jalal...

Also this must have been the first of its kind na tants... Did king Bharmal think about the cultural differences and what Jodha would have to go through to adjust in a household which was so different in cultural as well as religious aspects?

Wondering if they thought about the open mindedness with which Jodha was brought up and the conservativeness that she might have to undergo in addition to the secondary treatment she might face there because of her rajput lineage?

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