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Love in the times of the Mongols (Mughals): Borte & Joddha

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Love in the times of the Mongols (Mughals): Borte & Joddha

Post by Shesherkobita on 2013-07-21, 21:12

Love is such an alluring, many splendored thing. I was mesmerized by the love story in the movie Jodha Akbar but I am even more intrigued by the serial of the same name where they show Akbar's harem full of wives and concubines. Shocked Did he really love ONE from his many wives? 

When I was gushing about the movie Jodha AKbar (2008) someone suggested that I should also watch an Oscar nominated foreign film MONGOL (2007). This movie could give me insight into who the Mughals ( mispronunciation of the word Mongols) were and how they loved & fought. Akbar was proud to be  a descendant of Emperor Genghis Khan, who built a vast empire consisting of Mongolia, China, Korea, Central Russia and Caucasus Europe.  Jalal (Akbar) emulated Genghis Khan ( Temujin) in many ways. Both were merciless warriors in battlefield but they were also tolerant of other religions, listened to counsel of people from various sects & stria of society and successfully united many fractious kingdoms through diplomacy. Last but not the lest, they also took many wives, sometimes as part of their diplomacy. Rolling Eyes 

Now, the above info is great for historians and deep thinkers Sleep .... but I am a shallow thinker and hopeless romantic :heart: . I started to watch the movie reluctantly but was pleasantly surprised to find a LOVE story amidst the blood and gore. cheers Young Temujin had no plans to rule the world. He had fallen for a girl named BORTE when he was around 10 yrs old. They married at 17, the morning after the wedding Borte was abducted by a rival tribe. The decision by Temujin to rescue her was one of the key decisions that started his path to conquer the world. Now, this is the kind of story I like, fight for your love  bounce . Borte was captive for 8 months and was with child when Tamujin rescued her :cry: . Did Tamujin leave her and made her feel unworthy? No way! He accepted Jochi, the son, as his own even though his followers never accepted Jochi as the heir. Borte was also made the Grand Empress when Genghis Khan became ruler of half the world even though he took many other wives. 

Okay, back to the original topic of LOVE. It seems both Jalal and Temujin had many wives but they were deeply connected to ONE. Whether this can be called love by our modern definition, I don't know scratch . ONE Jodha for Jalal and ONE Borte for Temujin. Sure they had other wives who were also given some power and position but Jodha and Borte gave them a feeling of home and family (heirs). Irrespective of what's written in history, there is something SPECIAL about Jodha and Borte that made them a lore! KUCH TO HAI for sure! The romantic in me strongly wants to believe in that connection, in that lore! It puts a smile on my face and gives me a warm fuzzy feeling.
Heart 

**Written for DHWANI exclusively.


Trailer: MONGOL





In case you want to watch the movie:


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Re: Love in the times of the Mongols (Mughals): Borte & Joddha

Post by sarra0 on 2013-07-22, 03:34

Nice post Sabi, nice fuzzy feelings

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Re: Love in the times of the Mongols (Mughals): Borte & Joddha

Post by riyya6 on 2013-07-22, 05:08

Thumbsup 

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Re: Love in the times of the Mongols (Mughals): Borte & Joddha

Post by Tanthya on 2013-07-22, 14:23

This was a lovely reading .. Sabi..

what intrigues me is  was Borte a willing accomplice or was she raped ? Did she agree to go with T cuz the father of her child was dead..What would have been her decision had he been alive ??

coming to Akbar..who was his love ??

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Re: Love in the times of the Mongols (Mughals): Borte & Joddha

Post by pollyanna on 2013-07-22, 14:47

Loved reading and watching the vids Sabi...did not know abt Borte, thanks for sharing such info :)

I guess...yup thats rite..."kuchh to baat hai" is defo there......sometimes its too evident...at times....it remains hidden and just had to be FELT, I guess...:) :)
hence the Bortes and Jodhas will not be forgotten even if there are many in the harem....

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Re: Love in the times of the Mongols (Mughals): Borte & Joddha

Post by Shesherkobita on 2013-07-22, 16:31

Tanthya wrote:This was a lovely reading .. Sabi..

what intrigues me is  was Borte a willing accomplice or was she raped ? Did she agree to go with T cuz the father of her child was dead..What would have been her decision had he been alive ??

coming to Akbar..who was his love ??


Tanthya, you saw the movie ( atleast part of it)... Absolutely love you for that. hug1 


You raise an interesting point.... Even though historians wrote she was married off to a Merkit ( the rival tribe)... I believe she was simply raped by the plundering tribe.. The Merkits abducted her because Temujin's dad had abducted Temujin's mom from the Merkits Rolling Eyes that says something about women's status during that time!


She was the one who liked Temujin first ( you should choose me) but once abducted ... I don't know if she ever expected to be rescued ( 8 months is a long time) and might've moved on. Towards the end of the movie when Temujin was a prisoner... She became a concubine of a businessman ( survival was the first priority, had  a daughter with him too) but she continued to look for her husband, Temujiń! She eventually found him. They had a connection that went beyond a husband wive duty and all that. They belonged to each other in heart and mind , if not in body! He came to rescue her and years later she came to rescue him.


Hmmmm Akbar... Even though historians wrote about Rokeya more as the favored one but general population must've believed that Jodha had more influence on him. After all she had her own temple inside a Muslim household. Akbar's effort to unite Hindus and Muslims through one religion Din e Elahi might have been inspired by the religious harmony created by him and Jodha in their home. She bore him children while Rukiya was childless ... He must've visited her more Wink she was    trusted with Forman decrees ... All these must've contributed to the mass belief and started the lore. 


Akbar was thoroughly criticized for Din e Elahi... The historians must've chickened out and didnt want to add fodder to fuel of religious controversy by writing about his over arching preference for his Hindu wife, Harka ( Jodha) and stuck to Marium uz zamani's simple storyline ( just my POV). There was no doubt that Zamani was the princess of Amber and even though she changed her name ...she actually never converted to Islam. It seems like LOVE to me ...to take on so much criticism for Harka! The romantic in me wouldn't allow me to think otherwise... Kuch to hai...:heart:

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Re: Love in the times of the Mongols (Mughals): Borte & Joddha

Post by Tanthya on 2013-07-22, 16:46

Shesherkobita wrote:
Tanthya wrote:This was a lovely reading .. Sabi..

what intrigues me is  was Borte a willing accomplice or was she raped ? Did she agree to go with T cuz the father of her child was dead..What would have been her decision had he been alive ??

coming to Akbar..who was his love ??


Tanthya, you saw the movie ( atleast part of it)... Absolutely love you for that. hug1 


You raise an interesting point.... Even though historians wrote she was married off to a Merkit ( the rival tribe)... I believe she was simply raped by the plundering tribe.. The Merkits abducted her because Temujin's dad had abducted Temujin's mom from the Merkits Rolling Eyes that says something about women's status during that time!


She was the one who liked Temujin first ( you should choose me) but once abducted ... I don't know if she ever expected to be rescued ( 8 months is a long time) and might've moved on. Towards the end of the movie when Temujin was a prisoner... She became a concubine of a businessman ( survival was the first priority, had  a daughter with him too) but she continued to look for her husband, Temujiń! She eventually found him. They had a connection that went beyond a husband wive duty and all that. They belonged to each other in heart and mind , if not in body! He came to rescue her and years later she came to rescue him.


Hmmmm Akbar... Even though historians wrote about Rokeya more as the favored one but general population must've believed that Jodha had more influence on him. After all she had her own temple inside a Muslim household. Akbar's effort to unite Hindus and Muslims through one religion Din e Elahi might have been inspired by the religious harmony created by him and Jodha in their home. She bore him children while Rukiya was childless ... He must've visited her more Wink she was    trusted with Forman decrees ... All these must've contributed to the mass belief and started the lore. 


Akbar was thoroughly criticized for Din e Elahi... The historians must've chickened out and didnt want to add fodder to fuel of religious controversy by writing about his over arching preference for his Hindu wife, Harka ( Jodha) and stuck to Marium uz zamani's simple storyline ( just my POV). There was no doubt that Zamani was the princess of Amber and even though she changed her name ...she actually never converted to Islam. It seems like LOVE to me ...to take on so much criticism for Harka! The romantic in me wouldn't allow me to think otherwise... Kuch to hai...:heart:

 No, No..Sabi..Mariam DID convert to Islam  and  her son is Jahangir who was brought up by Ruquaiyya who demanded him  ..

Din -E- lahi as a religion never took off beyond the  Court of Akbar and died a quick death after his death ..

 even were Akbar's historians  were to go for a cover up  , You  are not taking    into account the rich ballad's of Nomads who were unafraid and would sing the lores of those  beings in love.. So we have the case of Rani Roopmati  being the  love of Baz Bahadur ..Salim falling for a lowly  courtsen Anarkali.

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Re: Love in the times of the Mongols (Mughals): Borte & Joddha

Post by Shesherkobita on 2013-07-22, 16:49

pollyanna wrote:Loved reading and watching the vids Sabi...did not know abt Borte, thanks for sharing such info :)

I guess...yup thats rite..."kuchh to baat hai" is defo there......sometimes its too evident...at times....it remains hidden and just had to be FELT, I guess...:) :)
hence the Bortes and Jodhas will not be forgotten even if there are many in the harem....

 Thanks Pals :sunny: I believe so... A lore doesn't start without some truth in it, whatever the historians wrote... People must've felt some special bond between them to spin a story of their own. 

Mongol, the movie sheds light on the Mughal's Modus Operandi... The fighting tactics, the counsellors, the demand of absolute loyalty, diplomacy and politics of uniting small kingdoms to their advantage all seem similar. The Mongols were different from Muslims from Middle East ( in fact middle eastern Khalifets/Ottomans and the Mughals didn't see eye to eye). So it was easier for Akbar to accept other religions as equal and allow his love, Jodha, the freedom to practice her religion. He faced huge criticism for this... Sound like love to me ...Heart

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Re: Love in the times of the Mongols (Mughals): Borte & Joddha

Post by Shesherkobita on 2013-07-22, 16:58

Tanthya wrote:
Shesherkobita wrote:
Tanthya wrote:This was a lovely reading .. Sabi..

what intrigues me is  was Borte a willing accomplice or was she raped ? Did she agree to go with T cuz the father of her child was dead..What would have been her decision had he been alive ??

coming to Akbar..who was his love ??


Tanthya, you saw the movie ( atleast part of it)... Absolutely love you for that. hug1 


You raise an interesting point.... Even though historians wrote she was married off to a Merkit ( the rival tribe)... I believe she was simply raped by the plundering tribe.. The Merkits abducted her because Temujin's dad had abducted Temujin's mom from the Merkits Rolling Eyes that says something about women's status during that time!


She was the one who liked Temujin first ( you should choose me) but once abducted ... I don't know if she ever expected to be rescued ( 8 months is a long time) and might've moved on. Towards the end of the movie when Temujin was a prisoner... She became a concubine of a businessman ( survival was the first priority, had  a daughter with him too) but she continued to look for her husband, Temujiń! She eventually found him. They had a connection that went beyond a husband wive duty and all that. They belonged to each other in heart and mind , if not in body! He came to rescue her and years later she came to rescue him.


Hmmmm Akbar... Even though historians wrote about Rokeya more as the favored one but general population must've believed that Jodha had more influence on him. After all she had her own temple inside a Muslim household. Akbar's effort to unite Hindus and Muslims through one religion Din e Elahi might have been inspired by the religious harmony created by him and Jodha in their home. She bore him children while Rukiya was childless ... He must've visited her more Wink she was    trusted with Forman decrees ... All these must've contributed to the mass belief and started the lore. 


Akbar was thoroughly criticized for Din e Elahi... The historians must've chickened out and didnt want to add fodder to fuel of religious controversy by writing about his over arching preference for his Hindu wife, Harka ( Jodha) and stuck to Marium uz zamani's simple storyline ( just my POV). There was no doubt that Zamani was the princess of Amber and even though she changed her name ...she actually never converted to Islam. It seems like LOVE to me ...to take on so much criticism for Harka! The romantic in me wouldn't allow me to think otherwise... Kuch to hai...:heart:

 No, No..Sabi..Mariam DID convert to Islam  and  her son is Jahangir who was brought up by Ruquaiyya who demanded him  ..

Din -E- lahi as a religion never took off beyond the  Court of Akbar and died a quick death after his death ..

 even were Akbar's historians  were to go for a cover up  , You  are not taking    into account the rich ballad's of Nomads who were unafraid and would sing the lores of those  beings in love.. So we have the case of Rani Roopmati  being the  love of Baz Bahadur ..Salim falling for a lowly  courtsen Anarkali.

Hmmm... Why do you think she did convert ( didnt know that, blaming google for it)  It's also a historical fact that she established a Kaali Mandir inside her house ( probable controversy on whether it was Kali or not) I wonder if she was pressured to convert later or maybe just changed the name and recited a few lines to create semblance of conversion. People do sham conversions to keep peace and all that... I wonder if that's what it was. 

Yes, neither the Hindus nor the Muslims thought din e Elahi was a good idea, blasphemy was declared on him. 

I believe the ballads of the nomads had truth in them. Some fire where there is smoke. I remember an interview with Gowarker ( director of JA) who did his research before the movie.... He said all 3 historians wrote completely different things opposing each other and they were all commissioned by Akbar.... What the.... :P  some say Marium uz zamani was his Christian wife  ( Mary of the age) scratch

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Re: Love in the times of the Mongols (Mughals): Borte & Joddha

Post by Shesherkobita on 2013-07-23, 04:15

sarra0 wrote:Nice post Sabi, nice fuzzy feelings

 Sarra.... My fuzzy buddy .... Thanks... hug1

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Re: Love in the times of the Mongols (Mughals): Borte & Joddha

Post by Shesherkobita on 2013-07-23, 04:16

riyya6 wrote:Thumbsup 
Riyya long hug

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Re: Love in the times of the Mongols (Mughals): Borte & Joddha

Post by Abavi on 2013-07-23, 12:06

Kuch to hai!!

I want to believe in this too Sabi... What is there without a little love?

There could be only one soul mate and Emperors are humans too.. Some were lucky to find a soulmate within a harem of beauties, some others werent so lucky.


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Re: Love in the times of the Mongols (Mughals): Borte & Joddha

Post by Shesherkobita on 2013-07-23, 15:27

Abavi wrote:Kuch to hai!!

I want to believe in this too Sabi... What is there without a little love?

There could be only one soul mate and Emperors are humans too.. Some were lucky to find a soulmate within a harem of beauties, some others werent so lucky.


 Thanks soooo much Vi... long hug I guess they were lucky in some ways. Both Jalal and Temujin were dealt a bad hand in early life... They both lost their fathers early... that left them with a sense of insecurity resulting in seeking counsel wherever and who ever was willing to give it to them ( whether its Bairam Khan or Jamukha, Rukiya, Jodha or Borte). Their unsure , insecure childhood  made them LISTEN to others, understand perspectives and use diplomacy instead of swords all the time. Their craving to BELONG made them find love :heart: .

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Re: Love in the times of the Mongols (Mughals): Borte & Joddha

Post by Abavi on 2013-07-23, 15:39

Shesherkobita wrote:
Abavi wrote:Kuch to hai!!

I want to believe in this too Sabi... What is there without a little love?

There could be only one soul mate and Emperors are humans too.. Some were lucky to find a soulmate within a harem of beauties, some others werent so lucky.


 Thanks soooo much Vi... long hug I guess they were lucky in some ways. Both Jalal and Temujin were dealt a bad hand in early life... They both lost their fathers early... that left them with a sense of insecurity resulting in seeking counsel wherever and who ever was willing to give it to them ( whether its Bairam Khan or Jamukha, Rukiya, Jodha or Borte). Their unsure , insecure childhood  made them LISTEN to others, understand perspectives and use diplomacy instead of swords all the time. Their craving to BELONG made them find love :heart: .
 
Thanks for what Sabi? long hug 
 
Yes, Belong in the true sense!
I dont know how far what is shown in the show is true.. But did you notice how inspite of Jalal claiming and promising Ruq that she is his fav begum, the moment she comes in and compliments him, He asks he knows that she wants something from him now.. and asks what she wants..
 
Now do you see the insecurity or inability to belong? he wouldnt let himself to belong to someone- he always puts that chain around him, even his preferences are with certain individuals, he wouldnt let them inside that chain. Maybe this was the real situation then too...
 
As an emperor, he was always intent on expansion, and he didnt have much time or heart to lose himself, surrender to some woman in the truest sense. He must have feared being in love - as it would make him weak. One of the main lessons taught to him by BK.
 
Then may be Jodha came along with an axe and cut off those chains around him...

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Re: Love in the times of the Mongols (Mughals): Borte & Joddha

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