Latest topics

Dear Jodha, Make your choice wisely.

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Dear Jodha, Make your choice wisely.

Post by adianasr on 2014-04-26, 16:48

My dear Jodha,

I am very glad that you told the Shahenshah that you wont return to Agra - infact that you will return only when you want to. I am very glad that you decided to make use of the choice given by life and the Universe to you this time. But my dear Jodha, have you understood what the choices are?

Let me start from the beginning of your journey with the Shahenshah and show you the choices that both of you had and the choices both of you made.

If you remember, your father brought the proposal of marriage between you and the Shahenshah. I understand your feeling that you were given no choice and were forced into this union - but is that really true???

Life and the Universe provided both of you with two choices - Love and Identity. Both of you set out by choosing Identity - He wanted to stamp his identity on you and You refused to acknowledge any other except your own. Both of you in private wanted to stamp the identity of the other dead, yet Life and the Universe decided to give you a chance and so she sent the next twist in your lives - which resulted in your first attempt at suicide.

From here on started the Shahenshah's journey from letting his identity go as he moved into Love. But for you the aspect of your Identity was becoming more and more paramount. His saving your life from the tiger, his giving away a fort that had memories attached to it, his tentative admission of love - they were all his journey on this path - then came your rejection and the man who was slowly moving towards love realized his identity slipping thru his hands just as you did, that fateful night when he questioned you with his outburst.

During this same period, your grip on your identity became tighter and tighter. Yes, you brought him back to safety after the tiger attack but that was to prop your identity as a Rajvanshi wife. Yes, you made efforts to repair his bond with his sister but that was to assuage your guilt for your unjust behavior to him during the fake pregnancy period, which did not sit well with your personal and Rajvanshi code of honor. It was all about your identity - it was never about him or about love.

Then came Benazir - yes the Shahenshah, who was letting his identity go for Love, made another attempt to hold on to his identity - but then did you let your identity go and start your journey to Love? - No, you continued with your identity clinging - and drank that poison becoz it was your duty as a Rajvanshi wife, not for him or for love.

This was his final wake up call - and here he dropped all pretenses - he decided to take that chance and chose Love over Identity - and my dear Jodha please recall his words even in that tirade of his - his identity as an Emperor, as a husband and as a man was crumbling and when he finally let you go - it was not an act of control as you have decided - it was an act of dissolving his identity for Love - where, based on your answer of loving another, he let you go to your love - An Emperor, a Husband and a powerful man  for who the wife is a chattel to his identity, dissolved the very same identity, so as to give said wife her happiness with her love. - If he was wrong in his assumption, who was responsible for it dear Jodha?

And now we come to you dear Jodha, you who want to enforce your choice - you who is still asking what your identity is - your choice is once more between Love and Identity.

And I will clarify further for you dear Jodha - If you want Love, You will have to choose 'Being nothing' - having no 'astitva' - becoz Love is about being 'Nothing', about being 'Khak'

And if you want Identity, You can choose your 'Marriage' and being a wife and a 'Begum' - but then be prepared to see the Shahenshah find Love with another - becoz the Universe will give him that chance since he has chosen Love over Identity - and you will become another bystander like Begum Ruquiyya, while the Shahenshah gets his chance at Love again with another.

Begum Ruquiyya believed the Shahensha's rants of No Dil' and chose to have Identity and thus is a bystander watching helplessly the Shahenshah and You getting this chance at Love. The Shahenshah did not accept your rants of Kartavya and Duty and chose to become 'Nothing' in Love - thus he will be the favored one of Life and the Universe.

You dear Jodha, need to decide what choice you will make - Love and thus be 'Nothing' or Identity and be a bystander. Dear Jodha, choose wisely and choose well - becoz this is that last opportunity that Life and the Universe will give you. Remember these wise words of another Rajvanshi, Meera -

Ham Aur Nahi Kachu Kaam Ke, Matware Pi Ke Naam Ke
I am of no other purpose, But spellbound for my beloved's name

Simroon Main Pi Ka Naam
I have bejewelled my beloved's name



With the good wishes of a well wisher
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Identity is a western concept that has no place in the Indian and Sufi Philosophy of Love / Prem / Ishq - These philosophies emphasize on making oneself Nothing in Love - of loosing the self to find the SELF. They speak of becoming 'Khak' which then becomes the 'beloved' and finally attain the 'Beloved' - as the qawaali from Barsaat ki Ek raat says -

Khak ko but aur but ko devta karta hai Ishq, Inteha yeh hai ki bande ko khuda karta hai Ishq.

Its all very nice to have an identity - and being a feminist and an activist for women's rights - but a Love Story is about two people - where gender has no place - it is about two souls - and in a love story there can never be any space for identity - To Love one has to become Nothing' - so my challenge to you dear EK and team is - do you have the Vision and the Guts to show this????? If you do then call this an Epic Love Story, warna call this another saas bahu drama. This is not just a letter to Jodha and her CVs, this is infact an open challenge to the makers.


Last edited by adianasr on 2014-04-26, 17:21; edited 2 times in total

adianasr
Bronzie
Bronzie

Posts : 273
Join date : 2014-04-22

Back to top Go down

Re: Dear Jodha, Make your choice wisely.

Post by Jiggy on 2014-04-26, 17:16

adianasr wrote:
My dear Adi   
I’m writing to you behalf of Jodha, (who is currently sleeping, having eaten nothing for 5 days, the stubborn goat) We read your letter thrice and after much discussion, I decided it’ll be for the best if we get her feelings out in the open, for the CV’s don’t look like doing so at the moment.
 
I’ll address parts of your letter on her behalf. Hope you read and try to understand her viewpoint as nicely as you do her husband’s. The words shall be mine, but the sentiments will be Jodha's or about as much as I could understand her.

My dear Jodha,

I am very glad that you told the Shahenshah that you wont return to Agra - infact that you will return only when you want to. I am very glad that you decided to make use of the choice given by life and the Universe to you this time. But my dear Jodha, have you understood what the choices are?

Let me start from the beginning of your journey with the Shahenshah and show you the choices that both of you had and the choices both of you made.
 

If you remember, your father brought the proposal of marriage between you and the Shahenshah. I understand your feeling that you were given no choice and were forced into this union - but is that really true???
I'd like to correct you on this, though it has nothing to do with what we are here to discuss. King Bharmal DID NOT offer Jodha to Jalal for marriage, HIMSELF. Akbar's biography clearly mentions that Bharmal's son, 2 nephews and army was taken hostage by Akbar's subeidar Sharif-ud-din. Chugtai khan, who was at time a subordinate to sharif-ud-din and a friend of Bharmal as shown in the serial, was the mediator in this political settlement.

Life and the Universe provided both of you with two choices - Love and Identity. Both of you set out by choosing Identity - He wanted to stamp his identity on you and You refused to acknowledge any other except your own. Both of you in private wanted to stamp the identity of the other dead, yet Life and the Universe decided to give you a chance and so she sent the next twist in your lives - which resulted in your first attempt at suicide.

From here on started the Shahenshah's journey from letting his identity go as he moved into Love. But for you the aspect of your Identity was becoming more and more paramount. His saving your life from the tiger, his giving away a fort that had memories attached to it, his tentative admission of love - they were all his journey on this path - then came your rejection and the man who was slowly moving towards love realized his identity slipping thru his hands just as you did, that fateful night when he questioned you with his outburst.

During this same period, your grip on your identity became tighter and tighter. Yes, you brought him back to safety after the tiger attack but that was to prop your identity as a Rajvanshi wife. Yes, you made efforts to repair his bond with his sister but that was to assuage your guilt for your unjust behavior to him during the fake pregnancy period, which did not sit well with your personal and Rajvanshi code of honor. It was all about your identity - it was never about him or about love.

 
My dear Adi. You’re take each and every action of jalal’s as his way of losing his identity as he moved into love, forgetting many of his actions where he was rigid and cruel, where he hated and did not love.
Similarly, you are taking each of Jo’s actions as her preserving and holding her grip on to her identity as a rajvanshi wife, selectively and conveniently forgetting the times she also let go and acted on her love for him.
You pull out all the stops when it come to Jalal, my dear. Interpreting his words; spoken or unspoken. So I’m going to try and do the same for Jo.
 
If Jodha’s saving her husband and bringing him to safety after tiger attack was a prop to her identity as a Rajvanshi wife, then Jalal’s saving her from the tiger is a prop to his fulfilling his duty as the mughal shehenshah protecting his begum. There was no love lost between the two then, but a cease fire was accepted on.
 
Jo came to this marriage with the baggage of knowledge that this was merely a political settlement, her husband hated her, he promised to protect her from the world but also fed her to the wolves of the harem-knowingly and unknowingly.
Her identity as a rajvanshi among mughals was her only shield to protect herself from people like MA, ruks, AK, SD and even Jalal.
The fact that she tried to make a place of her own at Agra, to consider her husband’s family as her own, to learn his religion and language when she wasn’t even forced to, to try and see her husband in a new light and realize he has a dil even when he denies it… all this points to her own evolution and losing of her identity to love even unknowingly…
The fact that she stood up against her ameri family and proclaimed herself the mughal begum should be big enough hint as to how she willingly –if not lost- but made secondary to her identity as a rajvanshi princess…something she'd never do for someone she hated so passionately...
Tell me then, how can you brand so many of her actions as neither for him nor about love…

Then came Benazir - yes the Shahenshah, who was letting his identity go for Love, made another attempt to hold on to his identity - but then did you let your identity go and start your journey to Love? - No, you continued with your identity clinging - and drank that poison becoz it was your duty as a Rajvanshi wife, not for him or for love.

 
We all saw her turmoil, the blind panic and the hysteria as she raced against all odds to save her husband from Benazir. We all have been witness to her determination and single minded focus on uncovering Ben’s truth and protect her husband’s life, even when he treated her harshly and with censure. WE ALL SAW how she bore the numerous PUBLIC humiliations, insults, doubts but didn’t let go of her zidd to save her husband’s life…
In short, for the first time we saw huge signs of love from Jodha to Jalal. Her every action was FOR HIM, her every concern was FOR HIM.
THIS was Jodha’s journey into love and that’s where she stayed and stays still…
If you still consider all this as another instance of her clinging to her identity as a rajvanshi wife… then what about the jealousy she felt when Jalal went near Benazir…? or anyone for that matter… surely as a rajvanshi wife she should be privy to the fact that her husband can take more than one wife or concubine…? then why this jealousy to a mere servant….?
The answer is simple one and in front of you eyes… but so you want to see it…?
I’ve seen people interpreting Jalal’s words in a completely different way than what he meant them as… for eg. When he ordered her to leave agra people interpreted it as his way of asking her to stay as he didn’t really mean it….!!
Then why do we take Jodha’s feeble excuses of “karthavya: that she uses as a shield to hide her real feelings, at face value…? If Jalal himself waves them off as excuses, why must we then not consider that yes...she is in love...  and denial is not just a river in egypt...
Food for thought…

This was his final wake up call - and here he dropped all pretenses - he decided to take that chance and chose Love over Identity - and my dear Jodha please recall his words even in that tirade of his - his identity as an Emperor, as a husband and as a man was crumbling and when he finally let you go - it was not an act of control as you have decided - it was an act of dissolving his identity for Love - where, based on your answer of loving another, he let you go to your love - An Emperor, a Husband and a powerful man  for who the wife is a chattel to his identity, dissolved the very same identity, so as to give said wife her happiness with her love. - If he was wrong in his assumption, who was responsible for it dear Jodha?

 
Here I’d like to point out a blooper… he didn’t dissolve his identity here… he was very much the Shehenshah albeit one suffering from heartbreak… see how…
You say he lost his identity for love and let her go to her alleged love so she could live in happiness… But maybe you forget that in his angry tirade he promised her that he would execute the alleged lover before her eyes!!
Also if jalal suffering heartbreak was the proof that he lost his identity to love…
Then Jo was also suffering from heartbreak… you’d notice that during the Mathura track…most of her flashbacks were of him ordering her to leave Agra… BIG reason enough to believe that she wasn’t as concerned about the fidelity of a rajvanshi wife as she was about the fact that jalal threw her out of his life and love… one that she was beginning to reciprocate…

And now we come to you dear Jodha, you who want to enforce your choice - you who is still asking what your identity is - your choice is once more between Love and Identity.
Her request of an identity and your inference of it are different… I've explained at the end....

And I will clarify further for you dear Jodha - If you want Love, You will have to choose 'Being nothing' - having no 'astitva' - becoz Love is about being 'Nothing', about being 'Khak'

And if you want Identity, You can choose your 'Marriage' and being a wife and a 'Begum' - but then be prepared to see the Shahenshah find Love with another - becoz the Universe will give him that chance since he has chosen Love over Identity - and you will become another bystander like Begum Ruquiyya, while the Shahenshah gets his chance at Love again with another.

Begum Ruquiyya believed the Shahensha's rants of No Dil' and chose to have Identity and thus is a bystander watching helplessly the Shahenshah and You getting this chance at Love. The Shahenshah did not accept your rants of Kartavya and Duty and chose to become 'Nothing' in Love - thus he will be the favored one of Life and the Universe.

If Jo were to rant of karthavya and duty, then she’d be on the first elephant to Agra cos, in your words, she’s a wife and he duty is to her in-laws and husband… catch 22 for her...
But that’s not what she’s doing…

You dear Jodha, need to decide what choice you will make - Love and thus be 'Nothing' or Identity and be a bystander. Dear Jodha, choose wisely and choose well - becoz this is that last opportunity that Life and the Universe will give you. Remember these wise words of another Rajvanshi, Meera -

Ham Aur Nahi Kachu Kaam Ke, Matware Pi Ke Naam Ke
I am of no other purpose, But spellbound for my beloved's name

Simroon Main Pi Ka Naam
I have bejewelled my beloved's name

 
That is one beautiful poem and I’m going to keep it with me ;)But I digress…
 
You must have heard stories of Meera bai right? How she was given Poison mixed with Prasad which turned to Amrit. How the bed of nails given to her turns to one covered with rose petals. How the snake in her flower basket turned into a garland of flowers.
 
Meera’s love for Krishna was true and not maligned by any outside influence. Life threw so many obstacles her way but she was undaunted because she was firm in her belief that her one true love, her devotion, her Krishna would protect her no matter what. That if the world shunned her, her Krishna would always be there, supporting her and providing for her.
 
Jodha’s love for jalal was of this nature. Their relation having survived numerous trials and tribulations convinced her that even if the world was against her, jalal would support her. That belief was further established as he supported her in the moorthy track and proved her innocent. Finally she risked involving her heart, which she had so zealously protected behind the karthavya shield, for she started to believe that if nothing, atleast she would never have to give proof of any kind to him. That atleast her loyalty and fidelity, if not her love, would never be questioned. That jalal would support her, provide for her and stand with her against the world.
 
Imagine the heartbreak both suffered due to this fracas. Neither was Jalal’s nor Jo’s love any less… and so both suffered for it…
 
I have no doubt that Jo would choose love… for she has already… she HAS lost her identity in love… and the identity which she’s silently requesting by staying at Amer and telling him “I’ll come back to Agra when I wish to and not when you demand” is of a different kind
 
Meera had had an identity… she considered herself married to Krishna… and in this relationship he didn’t pull her like a puppet… he didn’t order her to stop singing and dancing… meeting religious gurus… roaming the whole of north India… he let her be her own person… to be able to take decisions which decided the course of her happiness and never made her bend to what she didn’t want to do….
 
Jo only wants an identity of this kind. Where she’s not treated as furniture… when other is happy, used… when not, discarded… then going to get it back…
She wants to be as much able to decide the course of her happiness as jalal…
She wants the both of them to be proactive in this relationship… both to be on an equal footing as husband and wife…together, against the world…
When this happens… that’s when BOTH will truly lose their identity... but acquire a new one... one where the duty is the happiness of one's beloved, to give space and to protect one another...
In no way is women’s rights, self pride and arrogance coming into this equation…
 
When Jodha returns to Agra…it’ll be her having embraced jalal fully as her husband and partner… on her own volition… this would result in both their happiness and love would hold for time immemorial…. Only then we’ll get out epic love story of Jodha Akbar.
 
Thanks for reading.

With the good wishes of a well wisher

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Love holds no boundaries... and losing one's identity to acquire a new one connected to the partner is not the invention of a scientist... all successful relationships demand one....all marriages survive on one..
as my friend nanayaa said a few hours ago the world is a global village and we are in the same boat governed by the same divine laws of the Maker unknowingly...

Identity is a western concept that has no place in the Indian and Sufi Philosophy of Love / Prem / Ishq - These philosophies emphasize on making oneself Nothing in Love - of loosing the self to find the SELF. They speak of becoming 'Khak' which then becomes the 'beloved' and finally attain the 'Beloved' - as the qawaali from Barsaat ki Ek raat says -

Khak ko but aur but ko devta karta hai Ishq, Inteha yeh hai ki bande ko khuda karta hai Ishq.

Its all very nice to have an identity - and being a feminist and an activist for women's rights - but a Love Story is about two people - where gender has no place - it is about two souls - and in a love story there can never be any space for identity - To Love one has to become Nothing' - so my challenge to you dear EK and team is - do you have the Vision and the Guts to show this????? If you do then call this an Epic Love Story, warna call this another saas bahu drama. This is not just a letter to Jodha and her CVs, this is infact an open challenge to the makers.

Me in green... long hug 
thanks for reading...
 


Last edited by Jiggy on 2014-04-27, 03:28; edited 3 times in total

Jiggy
Dazzling Diamond

Posts : 1751
Join date : 2013-12-21
Location : New Delhi

Back to top Go down

Re: Dear Jodha, Make your choice wisely.

Post by Sam_0506 on 2014-04-26, 17:25

Finally have enough time to read this fantastic letter of yours with proper attention.
First of all, thank thanks thanks !!! I’d requested Shyamala Aunty towrite a letter to Jodha. My wish has come true. I love your thoughtful and practical line of thought too dear.
 
I agree with most of what you’ve said. But on a few points I want to share my perspective with you.
1.       1. I think Jodha saved Jalal from Tiger Attack (after getting him trouble in first place) because of her sense of Kartavya, yes, but also because of her guilt. She was the one who landed him that trouble.
 
2.    Adi, I think she tried to mend his broken bond with his sister because of her innate goodness of heart. All said and done, her recent mulish behavior notwithstanding, she is a good human being. No matter how that annoys us, we can’t ignore the fact that she wants to help everybody who comes within her sphere. (whether that person needs her help is another thing although  hpee ). Moreover Jalal was estranged with his sister because of her. Hence she might be somewhat feeling guilty too.

I loved this bit.

And I will clarify further for you dear Jodha - If you want Love, You will have to choose 'Being nothing' - having no 'astitva' - becoz Love is about being 'Nothing', about being 'Khak'  Clap 
 


She needs to know that if she loses herself in his love she is not going to lose her identity (Btw, what identity. In that era, did the women, even princesses have any identity per se?) Just like he’s left his Shehenshah persona behind to find her, she needs to leave her Rajvanshi persona behind. When they dissolve into each other, they both are going to get a new identity, which will be their, not her, not his but their.


Now take a bow dear. Very well written letter, yours is.
Sam


Last edited by Sam_0506 on 2014-04-27, 21:39; edited 1 time in total

Sam_0506
Bronzie
Bronzie

Posts : 218
Join date : 2014-04-18

Back to top Go down

Re: Dear Jodha, Make your choice wisely.

Post by neha on 2014-04-26, 19:09

Wow ! this is brilliant  Thumbsup 

'Being nothing' - having no 'astitva' - becoz Love is about being 'Nothing', about being 'Khak'

I loved each and every line, but this one is beautiful Heart 

But frankly speaking I'm of a firm belief that Jodha will never let go her identity, dunno but looking at her character portrayal its very tough to say that she will lose herself in love at the cost of her identity. Yes she will love him eventually but not in the same way he does. Her fears, her insecurities will always be there stopping her from being nothing in love. Jalal will never try to find love in any of his other wife and that's why Begum Jodha will never have to balance the scale as he will always be there to do it for her.

neha
Glittering Gold
Glittering Gold

Posts : 1189
Join date : 2013-10-02
Age : 26
Location : Pune

Back to top Go down

Re: Dear Jodha, Make your choice wisely.

Post by adianasr on 2014-04-26, 20:34

Thanks Neha, How these guys portray it I dont know, but if this was a real situation then I can say this with certainty - if Jodha did not dissolve her identity then my friend Ms. Kayanat (she's my best friend) will definitely give Jalal another chance at Love with someone else.


neha wrote:Wow ! this is brilliant  Thumbsup 

'Being nothing' - having no 'astitva' - becoz Love is about being 'Nothing', about being 'Khak'

I loved each and every line, but this one is beautiful Heart 

But frankly speaking I'm of a firm belief that Jodha will never let go her identity, dunno but looking at her character portrayal its very tough to say that she will lose herself in love at the cost of her identity. Yes she will love him eventually but not in the same way he does. Her fears, her insecurities will always be there stopping her from being nothing in love. Jalal will never try to find love in any of his other wife and that's why Begum Jodha will never have to balance the scale as he will always be there to do it for her.  

adianasr
Bronzie
Bronzie

Posts : 273
Join date : 2014-04-22

Back to top Go down

Re: Dear Jodha, Make your choice wisely.

Post by lashy on 2014-04-26, 21:09

neha wrote:Wow ! this is brilliant  Thumbsup 

'Being nothing' - having no 'astitva' - becoz Love is about being 'Nothing', about being 'Khak'

I loved each and every line, but this one is beautiful Heart 

But frankly speaking I'm of a firm belief that Jodha will never let go her identity, dunno but looking at her character portrayal its very tough to say that she will lose herself in love at the cost of her identity. Yes she will love him eventually but not in the same way he does. Her fears, her insecurities will always be there stopping her from being nothing in love. Jalal will never try to find love in any of his other wife and that's why Begum Jodha will never have to balance the scale as he will always be there to do it for her.  

Even I'm with Neha on this one... she is never going to let go of her identity unless the 'K' word came to play kartavya...like how she let go of her pride when she repeatedly went back to Jalal to tell him the truth about Ben despite his humiliations since it was her duty to save his life...

Another thing Adi, while I don't like Jodha's behaviour now, I don't think her efforts to patch up Jalal and BB were because of guilt... that was the one place she was genuinely showing signs of being a companion (though, she again made the wrong choice of playing peacemaker for an ungrateful villianish sister)

Her guilt for fake pregnancy allegations was very short-lived... it all got over with one grand lunch meeting  hppy

lashy
Shining Silver
Shining Silver

Posts : 315
Join date : 2014-04-22

Back to top Go down

Re: Dear Jodha, Make your choice wisely.

Post by Jiggy on 2014-04-27, 01:11

unreserved my post on page 1 Adi....do check....  

Jiggy
Dazzling Diamond

Posts : 1751
Join date : 2013-12-21
Location : New Delhi

Back to top Go down

Re: Dear Jodha, Make your choice wisely.

Post by lashy on 2014-04-27, 01:47

Jiggy wrote:
adianasr wrote:I loved reading your words Jiggy  hpee 
 
We all saw her turmoil, the blind panic and the hysteria as she raced against all odds to save her husband from Benazir. We all have been witness to her determination and single minded focus on uncovering Ben’s truth and protect her husband’s life, even when he treated her harshly and with censure. WE ALL SAW how she bore the numerous PUBLIC humiliations, insults, doubts but didn’t let go of her zidd to save her husband’s life…
In short, for the first time we saw huge signs of love from Jodha to Jalal. Her every action was FOR HIM, her every concern was FOR HIM. THIS was Jodha’s journey into love and that’s where she stayed and stays still…
I'm very proud of her for this! This is why, I want this Jo back No ...she is capable of giving to Jalal what he gives to her.. somehow after the Badal-Kajri track, this fizzled out... remember the Kajri who was a mistress of all perfect wifely emotions - be it understanding her husband's unsaid words/emotions or reading his eyes - be it expressing her love or jealousy - I don't understand the regression (I'm talking of right from after the harem elections and even before the Sujamal culmination) their relationship (especially her stance) again reached an impasse... 

If you still consider all this as another instance of her clinging to her identity as a rajvanshi wife… then what about the jealousy she felt when Jalal went near Benazir…?
Exactly...when she goes to Jalal she was discussing about harem elections and the sort... and then back at her chamber she's talking of jealousy... the CVs are doing a poor job with her characterization... while everyone can see the 'junoon' in Jalal's eyes for his wife, I wish they did a better (and more consistent) job of portraying her emotions too...its always been easier to decipher him in 'their' relationship than it has been to decipher her! This latest track was the worst though...esp with all sorts of prem... from 'I premed him' to 'I never felt the prem in his eyes' to 'This was not the guy I premed' No 


If Jo were to rant of karthavya and duty, then she’d be on the first elephant to Agra cos, in your words, she’s a wife and he duty is to her in-laws and husband… catch 20-20 for her...
But that’s not what she’s doing…
I loved this bit... was a bit of an eye-opener for me... for the first time, she's not succumbing to kartavya and ammijaan (her biggest excuses she's always used in the serial so far)... which means she'll follow the right path hereafter! I'm positive  hpee  

 
Jodha’s love for jalal was of this nature. Their relation having survived numerous trials and tribulations convinced her that even if the world was against her, jalal would support her. That belief was further established as he supported her in the moorthy track and proved her innocent. Finally she risked involving her heart, which she had so zealously protected behind the karthavya shield, for she started to believe that if nothing, atleast she would never have to give proof of any kind to him. That atleast her loyalty and fidelity, if not her love, would never be questioned. That jalal would support her, provide for her and stand with her against the world.
 
This is the first point I don't agree with you on... this MU showed the slight cracks still remaining in their relationship and BOTH ways. Just like how he succumbed to spells of insane rage due to heartbreak... she succumbed to fear too - if she trusted him so blindly like Meera Bai did upon Krishna...if she trusted his sense of justice (nyaay priya, she's always called him) then she would have known NOT to keep such an important issue from him...she didn't mention of Sujamal's letter to Jalal even before she was vachan-bandh...she lied to him to cover up where she'd gone... something I cannot see happening in a Meera Bai kind of prem...which means, her fear for her brother's life overtook her trust upon the Shehenshah. In this track, she was the first one to begin this spiral of mistrust/lies (in spite of her intentions being innocent/genuine) - which shook Jalal since he never would have assumed Jodha as one capable of lying.  He tried holding on to rationality, but her silence was killing him as they days went by.
If her love/trust for Jalal was like the 'blind' one you've stated - then, she wouldn't have flinched for a second and told him about Sujamal - after all, she's seen him mete justice and forgive so many wrongdoers/sinners around him! But here, she did succumb to brotherly love first... :) Not wrong.. but, for her to be solely shattered and play victim at his 'suspicions' upon her is wrong since she's mistrusted him too this time around... 


Imagine the heartbreak both suffered due to this fracas. Neither was Jalal’s nor Jo’s love any less… and so both suffered for it…
 
I have no doubt that Jo would choose love… for she has already… she HAS lost her identity in love… and the identity which she’s silently requesting by staying at Amer and telling him “I’ll come back to Agra when I wish to and not when you demand” is of a different kind
 
Jo only wants an identity of this kind. Where she’s not treated as furniture… when other is happy, used… when not, discarded… then going to get it back…
She wants to be as much able to decide the course of her happiness as jalal…
She wants the both of them to be proactive in this relationship… both to be on an equal footing as husband and wife…together, against the world…
When this happens… that’s when BOTH will truly lose their identity... but acquire a new one... one where the duty is the happiness of one's beloved, to give space and to protect one another...
In no way is women’s rights, self pride and arrogance coming into this equation…
I loved your acquire a new identity phrase! Again, I would say BOTH have treated each other like furniture in the past... she's done her fair share of hurling accusations, character-bhanging and public humiliations too...amer track, Holi, tent, fake pregnancy - everywhere she's suspected his intentions and said many strong words that would tear any normal person down...
My only gripe is that while HE recognizes and apologizes for his wrong doings she doesn't. True, she supports him by her actions - but, that's something he does too! She needs to start recognizing her pluses/minuses and where she stands in this entire equation 
with Jalal

When Jodha returns to Agra…it’ll be her having embraced jalal fully as her husband and partner… on her own volition… this would result in both their happiness and love would hold for time immemorial…. Only then we’ll get out epic love story of Jodha Akbar.
 
Exactly!!!! long hug  
 

lashy
Shining Silver
Shining Silver

Posts : 315
Join date : 2014-04-22

Back to top Go down

Re: Dear Jodha, Make your choice wisely.

Post by Jiggy on 2014-04-27, 02:10

thanks for the praise lashy long hug
my aim to write this was to show jo's POV since jalal's has already been discussed at length
& were you to read my previous posts I've always, without fail said that this latest misunderstanding & separation IS BOTH JODHA AND JALAL'S fault
BOTH have hurt each other, BOTH have brought this pain upon themselves & the other & BOTH will have to work to make amends
we've seen jalal do his bit and so now its jo's turn, the ball is in her court
since this is a love story we know what she'll do :)
typing from phone so will respond to your replies later hpee

Jiggy
Dazzling Diamond

Posts : 1751
Join date : 2013-12-21
Location : New Delhi

Back to top Go down

Re: Dear Jodha, Make your choice wisely.

Post by Sanchu on 2014-04-27, 08:29

at first, i want to say sorry 2 Adi.bcoz.i read ur post many times.b8 didn't reply it.bcoz i had a feeling that it was only one-sided.so i was waiting 4 d other side.which Jigs did.................

Jiggy...a really sensitive & brilliant post my dear..........u remember d morning aftr the boatride.............where jalal told her.....he can spend time with anuone at anytime...........b8 it would be surely bad 4 someone.if she does d all arrangements.& some other take the benifit................then jo's reply................."she would n8 feel bad bcoz, her aarangements have been waisted or shahenshaah spent time wid someone on that arrangement.......b8 she will feel bad bcoz..her love will be insulted......."

actually jo wants a assurance frm jalal.............she wants belief frm jalal..........bcoz still now at first jalal insulted her.then d truth comes out & then........

jo wants that.........her shahenshah loves her truly.n8 4 her beauty...........b8 4 her heart, 4 her soul.......jo is really a sensitive person...............i agree wid adi that sometimes she becomes rude toward her hubby...........b8 this rage is 4 her sorrow..........4 her insult that her husband doesn't believe her...........& if u really love someone.then it's easy 2 sacrifice ur love 2 someone..............bcoz the strength of ur love gives u the power 2 do that................b8 disbelief in that love............that really really crushes ur heart..................actually....repeatedly jalal's disbelief on jodha............has made her 2 n8 2 go 2 agra.bcxoz, she is losing her faith that her shahenshah will believe her.............her decline confession is n8 4 this only this issue...............actually this is 4 that all issues.in which jalal has insulted or doubted her........adi, i'm n8 against ur post..............b8 u also have 2 undrstnd jo's point of view.........when a indian marries & comes 2 a another house.......she has mainly 2 priroties...........love, loyalty & respect......in jo's case..........she has got love. respect........b8 loyalty............n8..........in this time......she wants this...........so, she need time 2 heal up her injury & go 2 agra............so, jalal have 2 wait 4 jo's comeback in agra......

Sanchu
Glittering Gold
Glittering Gold

Posts : 1142
Join date : 2014-04-03

Back to top Go down

Re: Dear Jodha, Make your choice wisely.

Post by adianasr on 2014-04-27, 19:29

Thanks for the response Jiggy. Srry for the late reply.

Jiggy just to let you know – As per Akbarnama (and I have read its translations by 5 different people) and as per the translations of Badayuoni’s works, the marriage proposal of the Amer princess was brought by her father (yes for the very reasons you mentioned) and Chugtai Khan was a mediatopr since he was a friend of Bharmal and knew the Emperor – it was not the idea of Chugtai Khan as shown by EK – it was very much brought by Bharmal – Akbarnama says that the meeting between the Emperor and Bharmal only was brought about by Chugtai Khan – Also I will now give the 3 reasons for Akbar to have agreed to this of which Akbarnama mentions only the first two – the last one comes from other sources of Akbar’s times – 1) Akbar wanted to created a nation unified under one banner and for that he wanted to first get the Rajputana and though he was an exceptional warrior, war strategist and tactician, he was also of the belief that the best victory is one which comes without using the sword and shedding blood (this if you have read ‘Art of War’ by Sun Tzu, you will know that all great warriors say the same). Hence when he was presented with the opportunity to get the Rajputana on his side thru Matrimonial alliances he went ahead. 2) this too is a recorded fact that when he was to come for this meeting with Bharmal, he suddenly changed path and went to Ajmer before the meeting to pray for finding a path to make his dream of a unified nation – where he is supposed to have had a vision (Akbar and Hamida were from the lineage of a great Sufi pir who was blessed with divine vision and Akbar was the last of this lineage to have had this ability) which further strengthened his view that this particular alliance would go in making his dream a reality. 3) though this is not a part of Akbarnama, in other records of this time – translated by others – I have come across that Akbar had seen Jodha / HK earlier, and he had become fascinated by her passion for life which added to his agreeing (here EK has been true to facts).

Jiggy, Jalal till the Suicide attempt did not even believe in a choice – for him it was all about Identity where Jodha was just an object. It was only after the Suicide attempt that Jalal even acknowledges that there is a choice in existence – the Choice between Identity and Love – so when I said his journey towards Love started here it was this and if you look back at his words you will realize that from here his entire handling of Jodha changed.

From here on, if you look at his actions, they were all an acknowledgement of Jodha as an individual – he no longer was looking to stamp her with his identity or stamp her identity dead.

As for Jodha, we do like to see all her actions thru rose colored glasses and romanticize them – in fact even I had done this – I too had thought the her wanting to repair the break btwn him and his sister was an act for him, I too thought that her usage of Kartavya during the Ben fiasco was a cover up, I too thought that her calling herself a Mughal Begum the start of her act of dissolving her identity – but I realized thru the epis and Jodha’s words that they were still a battle between Identity and Love and Jodha still had not made her choice and was clinging to her identity.
Before I do so let me state that for Jodha the choices were present already – she did not start from just being about Identity like Jalal – she was in the midway point where all she needed to do was make the choice.

That said let me explain each point  -
Her wanting to bridge the gap between Jalal and BB – in her conversations with Moti and HB, she has mentioned that she wants this patch up as she does not want to be the cause for the break of bond. This was less about Jalal and more about her.

As for the Kartavya speech – if you hear the astral talk you will realize that Jodha herself had chosen this act to be about her Kartavya as a ‘Rajvanshi wife’ and less about Jalal the person – what mattered more was that as a Rajvanshi wife she should not fail in keeping her husband safe – another pointer to this was the parrot reading where she was called her husband’s dhaal – a further add on to the identity concept of the Rajvanshi or Hindu wife as they say (btw I too happen to be a Hindu and a woman)

The next when she wanted Sharif released – the argument she gave, which many were so happy to hear, was that his act was against her and not her husband – she here is identifying herself separate from her husband – In a marriage, though there are 2 ppl, but when 1 is insulted (and I mean the way Jodha was by the implication of being an adulteress) the insult is also to the other person – and by calling this as an act against herself she once again showed her need to cling to her identity as separate from her husband’s.

Now we come to the Mughal Khandaan ki Jodha Begum – Yes even I was taken aback hearing this and was very happy – this was in response to her father’s act of treachery of hiding the Shivani truth – but this was becoz she had been shamed and her identity as a Rajvanshi had been sullied and the moment she was presented with the opportunity to rectify she took it – and she got 2 of them – one in the Ben vishpaan and the other when Sujamal came with the news of the conspiracy and she gave that vachan – pls hear her words, she says that I will give this promise to wipe off the kalank on your forehead – becoz with the Mewat attack and the killing of Jalal’s relations in a seemingly unethical manner and her own father’s treachery – in her eyes her identity had been challenged.

Let me add here that all her acts were due to her innate good nature – but they were not for Jalal the person – they stemmed from ‘This is the Rajvanshi Code of honor’ – good I like it but had the main reason been ‘This is for my Love for Jalal, my husband and this also is the Rajvanshi Code’ I would then say that she did it for him.

As for the insults – I wont cover them here but I have done separate topics on all the supposed insults of Jodha by Jalal – Most of them were brought by Jodha on herself – and in many places where Ruqaiyya’s words could have become a major insult to her, he has interrupted by diverting them in a different tangent. And as for insults before MA and Ruqaiyya, lets not forget Jodha’s insults to Jalal before these two ladies, before Hamida, Jiji anga, Gulbadan. And all these were done when Jalal too was clinging to his Identity just as Jodha has been.

As for Jalal, as I mentioned, the near death of Jodha was his wake up call – and his last opportunity to make the choice between Love and Identity – and it was here that he made his choice – to choose Love. And I have not said that by doing this he immediately managed to dissolve his identity – infact the actual dissolving did not even begin here – From here on he made that effort to not let his Identity get the upper hand and kept choosing Love – which we saw when he did not break apart when the Sujamal issue first started – and even after, he did make mistakes but immediately caught himself and made amends.

Jiggy this is not an easy journey and that the makers of the show have actually managed to show this thru the script and the acting itself is unbelievable for me!!!!!

Coming back to Jalal, the actual dissolving of identity started when he saw Sujamal in Jodha’s room – the night of that infamous outburst – You say that he told her he will kill the man – but you forget he had said that he will make her see him die – yet at the end he tells her to leave immediately – Why???? And when I say that ‘he let her go to her love and find her happiness with her love’ I did not mean the lover – it was meant as her being free of her obligations in a loveless marriage and free to mourn the man she loves and free to keep that love alive in her – being with one’s love has no connect with living with the lover / beloved – As an Emperor he cannot let the intruder live, which would have set a wrong precedent in terms of justice – but he could ensure that Jodha was not brought for judgment and so he asked her to leave (the punishment in such cases is stoning to death even today in traditional societies) – and this is where he actually took the step to dissolve his identity.

But the ultimate act of becoming ‘Nothing’, becoming that empty vessel came even later – jiggy even here it takes time for a person to completely empty all that was there and only when the cup becomes empty can the Universe fill it up with Love – and once again I will say Kudos to the writers to have scripted this for Jalal, but more than that its a hats off to Rajat for portraying this on screen – the exact point where Jalal emptied into Nothing was when in his search for Jodha, he sinks near the boulder, no longer an Emperor, no longer anything and we hear the azaan sound – Jiggy I have watched these epis mainly to see this journey of Jalal beooz I am fascinated by this entire journey and this was that point – I had been wondering why did this entire ‘Jodha missing’ scenario was built up – This was followed by his visit to Ajmer, where he goes as the empty cup and where he gets filled by the Universe with Love – this entire sequence with the Sema has been very beautifully put together - The only part in this entire progression that I have been upset with was the ‘Play the dead man’ game – I do not think Jalal would have needed to resort to this at all.

Coming to Jodha, jiggy, Sandhya, lashy and others from IF can confirm that I had been the first to point out that the FBs for her after the outburst were mainly focused on Jalal telling her that he frees her from their rishta and asking her to leave. I had been wondering the significance, and this Friday Jodha herself answered that she will decide when she will go and when she will come – and good I for one am glad that she took the stand that she wont go with him – but my reasoning is a bit different – Jodha still sees his request for her return as a form of control – and her kashmakash between Identity and Love has finally surfaced – this had been latent till now, buried deep within and had not been given form till now – the Universe finally helped her give it form just as it did for Jalal.

Now I want to ask Jodha one more question – in all her memories, which she keeps bringing back, there is one memory that she has never revisited. This if you remember is Jodha remembering the reflection of Jalal’s face in the Ghangor pond when she had floated her diya last time, after she comes back to the palace. She had also said that why do I keep seeing him when I am to be married to another. Also she tells Sukanya about seeing someone else and not Suryabhan and Sukanya closing her eyes and then taking hand off and asking her to see in the water in palace- again jodha sees Jalal’s reflection. This reminiscence of Jodha has been one memory that she has never revisited – I would now like Jodha to think why and also revisit the memory and remember what was in her heart at that time and why she was upset with herself and why she buried this so deep in her heart.

Jiggy, Jodha today is standing at that same point where Jalal was at the mazaar praying for Jodha and their astral talk – She is at that point where she has to finally make her choice between Identity and Love – If Jodha wants an identity similar to Meera then she will have to empty herself up – she will have to dissolve her current identity of gender, clan, religion, everything – becoz Love asks that we give up everything we are familiar with and comfortable with – and it is not for Jalal to give her any Identity after this, or for anyone else, or for her to make a new one – Love will now create her identity for her – just as it has done for Jalal – he is no longer dependent on any of the old forms of Identity – he no longer needs any of them – He is no longer looking for validation from anyone including his mother – and that is why he took the call to return to his duties and to his people.

Even for Jodha, just choosing Love will not result in her becoming ‘Nothing’ – it will another long journey for her just as it was for Jalal – and this will be her journey – and becoz I signed up to see her journey, that is why I want this capricious team of makers and EK to give me this journey!!!


Thanks for responding Jiggy, and if you can read thru this then you are great!!!!!!


When I talk of Identity here Jiggy, I am talking of all that we acquire within us as the image of what we think we are – In Love there is only the image of the beloved that the lover reflects this image of the beloved – once more I will quote Meera here –

Jab Se Radha Shaam Ke, Nain Hue Hain Char
Shaam Banne Hain Radhika, Radha Ban Gaye Shaam

Since Radha Shaam fell in love, their senses have become one
Shaam became Radhika, And Radha became Shaam


Sanson Ki Mala Pe, Simroon Main Pi Ka Naam

On the garland of my breaths, I have bejewelled my beloved’s name

adianasr
Bronzie
Bronzie

Posts : 273
Join date : 2014-04-22

Back to top Go down

Re: Dear Jodha, Make your choice wisely.

Post by Jiggy on 2014-04-27, 21:57

woooo......*lets out w whistle*
adi...thats one huge post you've left out for me to read thru  Evil or Very Mad  Evil or Very Mad 
but i won't be able to reply today since i've just come back after giving my entrance exam and am in no frame of mind to debate... No  
apologies.....will reply tomorrow... long hug

Jiggy
Dazzling Diamond

Posts : 1751
Join date : 2013-12-21
Location : New Delhi

Back to top Go down

Re: Dear Jodha, Make your choice wisely.

Post by Jiggy on 2014-04-27, 21:59

sanchu wrote:at first, i want to say sorry 2 Adi.bcoz.i read ur post many times.b8 didn't reply it.bcoz i had a feeling that it was only one-sided.so i was waiting 4 d other side.which Jigs did.................

Jiggy...a really sensitive & brilliant post my dear..........u remember d morning aftr the boatride.............where jalal told her.....he can spend time with anuone at anytime...........b8 it would be surely bad 4 someone.if she does d all arrangements.& some other take the benifit................then jo's reply................."she would n8 feel bad bcoz, her aarangements have been waisted or shahenshaah spent time wid someone on that arrangement.......b8 she will feel bad bcoz..her love will be insulted......."

actually jo wants a assurance frm jalal.............she wants belief frm jalal..........bcoz still now at first jalal insulted her.then d truth comes out & then........

jo wants that.........her shahenshah loves her truly.n8 4 her beauty...........b8 4 her heart, 4 her soul.......jo is really a sensitive person...............i agree wid adi that sometimes she becomes rude toward her hubby...........b8 this rage is 4 her sorrow..........4 her insult that her husband doesn't believe her...........& if u really love someone.then it's easy 2 sacrifice ur love 2 someone..............bcoz the strength of ur love gives u the power 2 do that................b8 disbelief in that love............that really really crushes ur heart..................actually....repeatedly jalal's disbelief on jodha............has made her 2 n8 2 go 2 agra.bcxoz, she is losing her faith that her shahenshah will believe her.............her decline confession is n8 4 this only this issue...............actually this is 4 that all issues.in which jalal has insulted or doubted her........adi, i'm n8 against ur post..............b8 u also have 2 undrstnd jo's point of view.........when a indian marries & comes 2 a another house.......she has mainly 2 priroties...........love, loyalty & respect......in jo's case..........she has got love. respect........b8 loyalty............n8..........in this time......she wants this...........so, she need time 2 heal up her injury & go 2 agra............so, jalal have 2 wait 4 jo's comeback in agra......
thanks for the praise sanchu long hug 
agree with your points of jo needing to go to agra on her own....

Jiggy
Dazzling Diamond

Posts : 1751
Join date : 2013-12-21
Location : New Delhi

Back to top Go down

Re: Dear Jodha, Make your choice wisely.

Post by adianasr on 2014-04-27, 22:15

Take your time Jiggy. This post is a long one!!!!!!


Jiggy wrote:woooo......*lets out w whistle*
adi...thats one huge post you've left out for me to read thru  Evil or Very Mad  Evil or Very Mad 
but i won't be able to reply today since i've just come back after giving my entrance exam and am in no frame of mind to debate... No  
apologies.....will reply tomorrow... long hug

adianasr
Bronzie
Bronzie

Posts : 273
Join date : 2014-04-22

Back to top Go down

Re: Dear Jodha, Make your choice wisely.

Post by adianasr on 2014-04-27, 22:29

Thanks Sam. And yes Jodha does have her heart at the right place and most of what she did was of her innate goodness - but it was also tinged with 'This is what a Rajvanshi wife would do' - I just wish she had added a 'This is for my Love for Jalal my husband' before the Rajvanshi line.

I have just made another post for Jiggy, though its a long one, do read it at leisure


Sam_0506 wrote:Finally have enough time to read this fantastic letter of yours with proper attention.
First of all, thank thanks thanks !!! I’d requested Shyamala Aunty towrite a letter to Jodha. My wish has come true. I love your thoughtful and practical line of thought too dear.
 
I agree with most of what you’ve said. But on a few points I want to share my perspective with you.
1.       1. I think Jodha saved Jalal from Tiger Attack (after getting him trouble in first place) because of her sense of Kartavya, yes, but also because of her guilt. She was the one who landed him that trouble.
 
2.    Adi, I think she tried to mend his broken bond with his sister because of her innate goodness of heart. All said and done, her recent mulish behavior notwithstanding, she is a good human being. No matter how that annoys us, we can’t ignore the fact that she wants to help everybody who comes within her sphere. (whether that person needs her help is another thing although  hpee ). Moreover Jalal was estranged with his sister because of her. Hence she might be somewhat feeling guilty too.

I loved this bit.

And I will clarify further for you dear Jodha - If you want Love, You will have to choose 'Being nothing' - having no 'astitva' - becoz Love is about being 'Nothing', about being 'Khak'  Clap 
 


She needs to know that if she loses herself in his love she is not going to lose her identity (Btw, what identity. In that era, did the women, even princesses have any identity per se?) Just like he’s left his Shehenshah persona behind to find her, she needs to leave her Rajvanshi persona behind. When they dissolve into each other, they both are going to get a new identity, which will be their, not her, not his but their.


Now take a bow dear. Very well written letter, yours is.
Sam

adianasr
Bronzie
Bronzie

Posts : 273
Join date : 2014-04-22

Back to top Go down

Re: Dear Jodha, Make your choice wisely.

Post by Jiggy on 2014-04-28, 14:06

adianasr wrote:
Thanks for the response Jiggy. Srry for the late reply.

Jiggy just to let you know – As per Akbarnama (and I have read its translations by 5 different people) and as per the translations of Badayuoni’s works, the marriage proposal of the Amer princess was brought by her father (yes for the very reasons you mentioned) and Chugtai Khan was a mediatopr since he was a friend of Bharmal and knew the Emperor – it was not the idea of Chugtai Khan as shown by EK – it was very much brought by Bharmal – Akbarnama says that the meeting between the Emperor and Bharmal only was brought about by Chugtai Khan – Also I will now give the 3 reasons for Akbar to have agreed to this of which Akbarnama mentions only the first two – the last one comes from other sources of Akbar’s times – 1) Akbar wanted to created a nation unified under one banner and for that he wanted to first get the Rajputana and though he was an exceptional warrior, war strategist and tactician, he was also of the belief that the best victory is one which comes without using the sword and shedding blood (this if you have read ‘Art of War’ by Sun Tzu, you will know that all great warriors say the same). Hence when he was presented with the opportunity to get the Rajputana on his side thru Matrimonial alliances he went ahead. 2) this too is a recorded fact that when he was to come for this meeting with Bharmal, he suddenly changed path and went to Ajmer before the meeting to pray for finding a path to make his dream of a unified nation – where he is supposed to have had a vision (Akbar and Hamida were from the lineage of a great Sufi pir who was blessed with divine vision and Akbar was the last of this lineage to have had this ability) which further strengthened his view that this particular alliance would go in making his dream a reality. 3) though this is not a part of Akbarnama, in other records of this time – translated by others – I have come across that Akbar had seen Jodha / HK earlier, and he had become fascinated by her passion for life which added to his agreeing (here EK has been true to facts).

Hmm.... i'm coming across such conflicting posts... 
Here you say Bharmal proposed marriage.... then on IF I've read History_geek 's posts stating otherwise...
and both of you are stating akbarnama as your references..... what to do? what to do ?
and yes.... I read about the divine vision hamida and akbar had.... though your point 3. was new info for me... so thanks....
(P.S. yes I did read "Art of War" when i was in 11th and coping with the madness that is science..... you should've seen my mum's face when i bought the book and she saw the title... 
 

Jiggy, Jalal till the Suicide attempt did not even believe in a choice – for him it was all about Identity where Jodha was just an object. It was only after the Suicide attempt that Jalal even acknowledges that there is a choice in existence – the Choice between Identity and Love – so when I said his journey towards Love started here it was this and if you look back at his words you will realize that from here his entire handling of Jodha changed. 

From here on, if you look at his actions, they were all an acknowledgement of Jodha as an individual – he no longer was looking to stamp her with his identity or stamp her identity dead. 

As for Jodha, we do like to see all her actions thru rose colored glasses and romanticize them – in fact even I had done this – I too had thought the her wanting to repair the break btwn him and his sister was an act for him, I too thought that her usage of Kartavya during the Ben fiasco was a cover up, I too thought that her calling herself a Mughal Begum the start of her act of dissolving her identity – but I realized thru the epis and Jodha’s words that they were still a battle between Identity and Love and Jodha still had not made her choice and was clinging to her identity.
Before I do so let me state that for Jodha the choices were present already – she did not start from just being about Identity like Jalal – she was in the midway point where all she needed to do was make the choice. 

For a second, I'll agree with your point here that jodha was already at the midway point where she had to choose between her identity and love...
so the question then comes why didn’t she...? Why did she choose to supress any and all feelings in her heart...? Why, inspite of knowing that the person whose face she saw in the water at gangaur, whom she'd kept thinking about; not knowing or understanding why, was jalal....The face that had struck a chord in her heart and was left imprinted in her mind was now her husband.... why then the continued animosity...? why not simply follow her heart's most secret wish to be able to care for the man whose mere reflection had sent her world into a tizzy ? 
i'll tell you why not... and no...it’s not just the hatred she had for him before she even knew who he was (though that also was the major point)....
its because, even after marriage jalal neither gave her any reason to nor any security to being able to equate her heart into this relation without the threat of a crushing heart-break....the one that both are suffering now from...


I'm not saying its jalal's fault (well, atleast in the beginning it was when he tried to crush and humiliate her at every step)... but just that this couple has had more misunderstanding and angst than any other ... and more often than not... jo has been asked to prove her loyalty, her chastity, her fidelity and her innocence.... 
it sort of makes a woman wary of considering to put her heart into the equation... and so its easiest to put it under lock and key...
being a woman yourself... place yourself in her shoes... right from the ransacking of the temple to this latest fracas.... do you not agree that we women hate passionately...? and its difficult to dissuade us when we are so determined...? and when we begin to love... we put everything on line... ? so makes sense that we protect our hearts with such diligence..... atleast i do....

Jo is not perfect... and neither is jalal... Both are different human beings feeling the same emotion for the other..... i think it’s terribly wrong to expect two people in love to have the same emotional timing.... i am a romantic at heart... but it sounds very surreal and hard to believe that two different human beings would feel the same for each other at the same time... its not wrong for one to feel love at a later time than the other..... that doesn't make the person's love for the other any less.... in fact i would say that person would be more sure of his/her love...
(p.s. i don't mean that you are saying this... but many other were which irked me a lot... and well.. flow flow mein yahan nikal gaya.... 
    )

That said let me explain each point  -
Her wanting to bridge the gap between Jalal and BB – in her conversations with Moti and HB, she has mentioned that she wants this patch up as she does not want to be the cause for the break of bond. This was less about Jalal and more about her.
My take on the emotional timing of two different people given above…
And if you want to believe that this was solely for her conscience then ok… but I believe she also saw jalal’s pain and so tried repeatedly to form a patch up between the siblings… if it was merely about guilty conscience then when she went to him that night and tried to make him forgive BB and he refused she would’ve left it at that… but she tried again and again…

So maybe it was for herself mostly…. But it was also for jalal….
And when she tried for the final time… after vishpan… well… I can say there was no guilty feeling there poking at her conscience… this time it was for jalal and BB only….

As for the Kartavya speech – if you hear the astral talk you will realize that Jodha herself had chosen this act to be about her Kartavya as a ‘Rajvanshi wife’ and less about Jalal the person – what mattered more was that as a Rajvanshi wife she should not fail in keeping her husband safe – another pointer to this was the parrot reading where she was called her husband’s dhaal – a further add on to the identity concept of the Rajvanshi or Hindu wife as they say (btw I too happen to be a Hindu and a woman)
I’m not sure which act you’re talking about so I’m going to guess its about the Ben track….
I’ve given my views in my last post about Jo’s state of mind in that track… no matter the astral talk…. We all saw she was driven by the need to save her husband’s life for she had begun to develop feelings for him… The karthavya wa nothing but a feeble excuse….. hell even Mothi Bai saw through it and so did jalal…. So I will not debate any further on this issue…
To each his own kay ?

The next when she wanted Sharif released – the argument she gave, which many were so happy to hear, was that his act was against her and not her husband – she here is identifying herself separate from her husband – In a marriage, though there are 2 ppl, but when 1 is insulted (and I mean the way Jodha was by the implication of being an adulteress) the insult is also to the other person – and by calling this as an act against herself she once again showed her need to cling to her identity as separate from her husband’s.
this was a period where jo was tentatively pushing her heart into the equation of their relationship...
she was reluctant to put such a  precious possession at stake but at the same time...eager to do so
remember last time when jalal had invited her to play she refused saying she didn't want to encroach on ruk's 'hak'
but now not only she's jumping in on the chance to play with him, but that too which he was waiting for ruks to play with...
methinks, this is big enough clue how the relationship from her side also shifted...
as for the insult to one being the insult to other person... Jo' aim here was to help a pregnant woman get the support of her (good for nothing, arse of a) husband when she needed it the most... her saying it being an act against herself was like giving jalal the opening to be able to release SD without any guilty conscience of it being a selfish act for his sister and against his ideals of justice...
This is yet another instant where she's put her husband before herself.... and here no karthavya was involved eh....?

Now we come to the Mughal Khandaan ki Jodha Begum – Yes even I was taken aback hearing this and was very happy – this was in response to her father’s act of treachery of hiding the Shivani truth – but this was becoz she had been shamed and her identity as a Rajvanshi had been sullied and the moment she was presented with the opportunity to rectify she took it – and she got 2 of them – one in the Ben vishpaan and the other when Sujamal came with the news of the conspiracy and she gave that vachan – pls hear her words, she says that I will give this promise to wipe off the kalank on your forehead – becoz with the Mewat attack and the killing of Jalal’s relations in a seemingly unethical manner and her own father’s treachery – in her eyes her identity had been challenged.

What I don’t understand is how can you take Jo’s ultimate sacrifice of drinking poison to save Jalal’s life as a chance for her to rectify the sullied Rajvanshi name…. no offence… But that’s turning this pure, selfless act of hers for her husband only, into something wrong and selfish and I can’t stand it… I’m sorry but it feels horrible to me to call it thus…
You say Jo saw her identity being challenged when jalal accused her bro of backstabbing and attack on mewat... maybe you forgot that when she first got the news that sujamal had allegedly backstabbed jalal’s brothers she asked him to punish sujamal in the worst way possible… in no way did she look or act as one whose identity had been challenged…. All I could see was a girl torn between her imlicit trust in her closest brother and loyalty and newfound feelings for jalal.
In the sujamal fiasco, Jo herself tried to tell Jalal that her brother could not attempt an assassination on him but jalal didn’t believe her… so she left it at that and turned to the only option she could… prayer…
Then… by means of the same prayer she got a letter from her brother asking her to meet him… she had gotten jalal’s side of the events that happened… so now it seemed only right for her to give her brother a chance to give his side of the events... and she realized that something seriously rotten was afoot…
So this gutsy girl tried to get to the bottom of the affairs herself…. So what…. Her brother was being wrongly implicated and her husband’s life was in danger… what was she supposed to do…? How can you call this another instance of her grabbing a chance to rectify her rajvanshi name…? And if it’s about rectifying her rajvanshi identity, which I feel it’s not… then how many times is she supposed to give proof for it…?
Lets not even begin at the vachan…. I’ll say this beforehand… so what is she lied to jalal and gave a vachan to her brother…. So far only she gave her proof of her loyalty and trust…. HER trust in jalal was slowly building but her trust in her brother has been there since childhood…. It doesn’t seem strange that she would give her bro this vachan and lie to jalal, who she knows would most probably go to his badi ammi first chance he gets….

Let me add here that all her acts were due to her innate good nature – but they were not for Jalal the person – they stemmed from ‘This is the Rajvanshi Code of honor’ – good I like it but had the main reason been ‘This is for my Love for Jalal, my husband and this also is the Rajvanshi Code’ I would then say that she did it for him. 

I'll only say this...
Do you expect a woman like Jo.... who is flawed like every other human being... who kept her heart under lock and key afraid of what was brewing inside for it would change her world for the better or the worse... to come out and say "oh I love him and thats why i'm doing this for him."  ??
is that what its going to take for you to believe that this girl has fallen in love and is afraid of acknowledging it to herself...? when we understand jalal's state of heart and actions as one borne out of love without him having to say it out loud " I love her and so i'm doing this for her" then why this double standard.....?
why for jalal one thing becomes a gesture of love but for jo it becomes "rajvanshi duty"
And if Jo didn't save his life for HIM... then for whom ?? shakuni bai ?? 
 

I'll blame the CV's for not being consistent with Jo's character for they have, since the beginning focussed more on the humanising of the "jallad" jalal an) how love changed him... in this Jo's transition has been overlooked (santram...      )
and so i try to skip over the easy and try to understand Jo as much as possible.... for she is a beautiful soul who is flawed like every normal person and i don't expect her to act like a Sati-Savitri or the perfect plastic bahu of a perfect plastic serial... 
This one's fiesty and has her good and bad aspects and thats what made jalal fall in love with her....period.


As for the insults – I wont cover them here but I have done separate topics on all the supposed insults of Jodha by Jalal – Most of them were brought by Jodha on herself – and in many places where Ruqaiyya’s words could have become a major insult to her, he has interrupted by diverting them in a different tangent. And as for insults before MA and Ruqaiyya, lets not forget Jodha’s insults to Jalal before these two ladies, before Hamida, Jiji anga, Gulbadan. And all these were done when Jalal too was clinging to his Identity just as Jodha has been.

For this i'll only say...if she insulted him in private... then so did he...
before he tried to divert other's insults off her... he was the first to participate in insulting her in the beginning....
What i loved about this serial was that the female lead wasn't docile and bearing the insults and abuse silently..... and seeing the two exchange insults like petty school rivals was hilarious...Both indulged in this... but holding one of them more wrong than the other...?nu-uh.... me no like and me no do....


As for Jalal, as I mentioned, the near death of Jodha was his wake up call – and his last opportunity to make the choice between Love and Identity – and it was here that he made his choice – to choose Love. And I have not said that by doing this he immediately managed to dissolve his identity – infact the actual dissolving did not even begin here – From here on he made that effort to not let his Identity get the upper hand and kept choosing Love – which we saw when he did not break apart when the Sujamal issue first started – and even after, he did make mistakes but immediately caught himself and made amends. 

Of course he had to make amends… not only was his guilt eating him up… but he also knew that he wouldn’t be able to sleep easily and his family would never forgive him if something happened to Jo who was alone out in the world…
Jalal going to amer first was a blooper for he should have remembered how mainavati lambasted Jo about leaving her husband’s place in disgrace…

Jiggy this is not an easy journey and that the makers of the show have actually managed to show this thru the script and the acting itself is unbelievable for me!!!!!

Coming back to Jalal, the actual dissolving of identity started when he saw Sujamal in Jodha’s room – the night of that infamous outburst – You say that he told her he will kill the man – but you forget he had said that he will make her see him die – yet at the end he tells her to leave immediately – Why???? And when I say that ‘he let her go to her love and find her happiness with her love’ I did not mean the lover – it was meant as her being free of her obligations in a loveless marriage and free to mourn the man she loves and free to keep that love alive in her – being with one’s love has no connect with living with the lover / beloved – As an Emperor he cannot let the intruder live, which would have set a wrong precedent in terms of justice – but he could ensure that Jodha was not brought for judgment and so he asked her to leave (the punishment in such cases is stoning to death even today in traditional societies) – and this is where he actually took the step to dissolve his identity.
He ordered her to leave to mourn in peace for her lost love…? Sorry… I didn’t see it that way…. He ordered her out of his life in disgust plain and simple…no love… no identity loss and stuff….only heartbreak… But I respect your opinion…
Also I find it hard to digest that jalal forgot how Mainavati had publicly rebuked her daughter in the suicide track and told her that the doors of Amer were forever shut for her if she ever left her husband in disgrace… that was a huge blooper…

But the ultimate act of becoming ‘Nothing’, becoming that empty vessel came even later – jiggy even here it takes time for a person to completely empty all that was there and only when the cup becomes empty can the Universe fill it up with Love – and once again I will say Kudos to the writers to have scripted this for Jalal, but more than that its a hats off to Rajat for portraying this on screen – the exact point where Jalal emptied into Nothing was when in his search for Jodha, he sinks near the boulder, no longer an Emperor, no longer anything and we hear the azaan sound – Jiggy I have watched these epis mainly to see this journey of Jalal beooz I am fascinated by this entire journey and this was that point – I had been wondering why did this entire ‘Jodha missing’ scenario was built up – This was followed by his visit to Ajmer, where he goes as the empty cup and where he gets filled by the Universe with Love – this entire sequence with the Sema has been very beautifully put together - The only part in this entire progression that I have been upset with was the ‘Play the dead man’ game – I do not think Jalal would have needed to resort to this at all.

Yes… that scene was beautiful (no… not the play dead one… that was horrible Bang)

Coming to Jodha, jiggy, Sandhya, lashy and others from IF can confirm that I had been the first to point out that the FBs for her after the outburst were mainly focused on Jalal telling her that he frees her from their rishta and asking her to leave. I had been wondering the significance, and this Friday Jodha herself answered that she will decide when she will go and when she will come – and good I for one am glad that she took the stand that she wont go with him – but my reasoning is a bit different – Jodha still sees his request for her return as a form of control – and her kashmakash between Identity and Love has finally surfaced – this had been latent till now, buried deep within and had not been given form till now – the Universe finally helped her give it form just as it did for Jalal.

I still disagree with your definition for identity here and believe that Jo is standing for what is right and best for their relationship in the long run…. But we both can agree to disagree and move one, for debating this further won’t solve anything…

Now I want to ask Jodha one more question – in all her memories, which she keeps bringing back, there is one memory that she has never revisited. This if you remember is Jodha remembering the reflection of Jalal’s face in the Ghangor pond when she had floated her diya last time, after she comes back to the palace. She had also said that why do I keep seeing him when I am to be married to another. Also she tells Sukanya about seeing someone else and not Suryabhan and Sukanya closing her eyes and then taking hand off and asking her to see in the water in palace- again jodha sees Jalal’s reflection. This reminiscence of Jodha has been one memory that she has never revisited – I would now like Jodha to think why and also revisit the memory and remember what was in her heart at that time and why she was upset with herself and why she buried this so deep in her heart.


I talked of the gangaur angle above and yes the CV’s have been terrible lax to exclude Jo’s ruminations and POV, which leaves us viewers annoyed … I can only blame the director for this for he, very pompously exclaims that he doesn’t direct Jo’s scenes which I believe is doing a terrible injustice to Jo’s character, the serial and us viewers…

Jiggy, Jodha today is standing at that same point where Jalal was at the mazaar praying for Jodha and their astral talk – She is at that point where she has to finally make her choice between Identity and Love – If Jodha wants an identity similar to Meera then she will have to empty herself up – she will have to dissolve her current identity of gender, clan, religion, everything – becoz Love asks that we give up everything we are familiar with and comfortable with – and it is not for Jalal to give her any Identity after this, or for anyone else, or for her to make a new one – Love will now create her identity for her – just as it has done for Jalal – he is no longer dependent on any of the old forms of Identity – he no longer needs any of them – He is no longer looking for validation from anyone including his mother – and that is why he took the call to return to his duties and to his people. 

Even for Jodha, just choosing Love will not result in her becoming ‘Nothing’ – it will another long journey for her just as it was for Jalal – and this will be her journey – and becoz I signed up to see her journey, that is why I want this capricious team of makers and EK to give me this journey!!! 
I do have a strong feeling we’ll get this… and so am ready and waiting for it…… Its about time

Thanks for responding Jiggy, and if you can read thru this then you are great!!!!!!
I did..... twice.....!!
damn i'm great.... 
 


When I talk of Identity here Jiggy, I am talking of all that we acquire within us as the image of what we think we are – In Love there is only the image of the beloved that the lover reflects this image of the beloved – once more I will quote Meera here –

Jab Se Radha Shaam Ke, Nain Hue Hain Char
Shaam Banne Hain Radhika, Radha Ban Gaye Shaam

Since Radha Shaam fell in love, their senses have become one
Shaam became Radhika, And Radha became Shaam


Sanson Ki Mala Pe, Simroon Main Pi Ka Naam

On the garland of my breaths, I have bejewelled my beloved’s name 
Oh goody....another poem for me to keep... hpee 
me in red... long hug 
oh...and to those who think i'm supporting jo too much...
well... i love both Jodha and Jalal to distraction... but i'm just presenting Jo's POV as i understand it....
no intention to offend anyone.... and if someone is....hmm...too bad.... hpee

Jiggy
Dazzling Diamond

Posts : 1751
Join date : 2013-12-21
Location : New Delhi

Back to top Go down

Re: Dear Jodha, Make your choice wisely.

Post by Sponsored content Today at 05:33


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum