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Jodha Akbar 247: Double descent

Post by sashashyam on 2014-05-27, 14:30

Folks,

First, my standard statutory warning. Those of you who are in varying stages of ecstasy over the  oh so eagerly awaited suhaag raat scene, and are reluctant to get out of the roseate haze in which they are immersed since 8:30 pm Monday night, are advised to quit at this point. If you stay  with me, be aware that it is at your own risk, for you are not going to like what is going to come!


Jodha’s descent: Ah, yes, the title, which might puzzle you. The first descent, a vertiginous one, is of Jodha’s character.


Now till now, whatever else I might have held against her, I never questioned that Jodha was Good-hearted, with a capital G, and generous to a fault. Plus of late, she had begun to care a lot for Jalal, not to speak of her periodic throwaway assertions that she has bahut prem, adhik prem etc.  for him. So let us take it that she loves him.


What is love if  the lover cannot rejoice in the joy of the beloved?  Jalal has yearned to become a father for so long and so deeply that the latest news has transported him  to the seventh heaven  of sheer bliss. Jodha can see that, and I am sure she understands what that means to him. So should she not be happy that his long sought dream of fatherhood is to be fulfilled at last?

If she had, mastering her initial disappointment, gone into the room and congratulated Jalal and Ruqaiya, I would have been delighted with her. It would have been gracious, generous, and queenly.


NB: All of you, Sam,  Greeshma et al, who clung to the convenient belief that Jodha did not yet know that Ruqaiya is expecting, see how right I was? I knew that it was impossible for her to stand there for so long, with Jalal going on and on and on about the baby, and not grasp that.

Very well, I said to myself - watching Jodha rage by herself about her helpless jealousy,  and then seeing Jalal come to share his bubbling happiness with her – Jodha  will now quickly wipe her tears and, no matter how miserably jealous she feels about Ruqaiya & Jalal,  at least say that she is happy about the baby.

Jodha could not do a Ruqaiya: But she does  no such thing. She sulks openly and makes a catty remark about his having many others  to share his happiness, and rejects his touch as if he had the plague. Jodha does not feel even an iota of happiness to echo Jalal's delight in the child.Contrast this ungracious petty-mindedness with Ruqaiya’s reaction in a similar situation.

Remember that when Jodha was said to be expecting a baby, Ruqaiya reacted with the utmost, and genuine, graciouness and warmth, not only to Jalal but to Jodha as well. And she slapped Hoshiyaar for daring to suggest that they get rid of the child by stealth; it was to be Jalal's child and she would not tolerate any such suggestions about Jalal's child.


Ruqaiya had managed, despite her haughty, demanding and intemperate nature, to completely transfer her love and posssessiveness towards Jalal to his unborn child. There was no jealousy,  only goodwill and joy in Jalal's joy.


And look at the mahaan, nek dil  Jodha Begum now! She  looked and sounded exactly like a jealous, peevish spouse, who is no  different from Ruqaiya in wanting Jalal all for herself.

When Jalal  correctly pinpoints the reason for her ill temper, Jodha  indulges in a fake spiel about not feeling upset which clearly means the opposite.

She then follows this up with a long self-pitying bhashan about the fate of wives in a polygamous set up, while a bewildered Jalal listens, his brows drawn together in a stern line of grim incomprehension. He might have been wondering where all these nari samman, ek patni vrat ideas fitted into the standard pattern of dozens of wives that every Rajput king of those days adopted as a matter of course.

I am sure all the ahistorical feminists across the forums will latch on to this bhashan to deify Jodha as a victim of the medieval, patriarchal set up, but to what purpose? Jodha was brought  up in this set up, and how did she propose to ensure that she alone would have all  the rights to her eventual husband, even if he was a Rajvanshi? Would Suryabhan not have had multiple wives? What then is the point in her suddenly railing about it, except to berate Jalal for his many begums and, sotto voce,  demand that he belong to her alone?

What kind of prem is this?: Yes, Jodha is afraid of being discarded one fine day, and I  can understand that nagging insecurity. In fact, that fear  was the only part of her tirade that touched me. But where is the  question of Jalal discarding what he does not have?


More important, love is not dependent on a lifetime warranty of monogamous togetherness, nor does it seek only to possess, as Adiana says time and again, only  more poetically.Jodha simply does NOT have any notion of kisiki ho jaana.She is still hung up on paana.



She behaves as though they  were a normal, contemporary  married couple of long standing, and  seems to expect that he should look at no one else but her,  and she should have sole proprietary rights to him. But they are NOT a normal, contemporary married couple, are they?

Next, what right has she to claim the  sole adhikar  to Jalal as a wife  when she has given him none of the rights of a husband?

She makes a big deal of a wife having to do her best to keep her husband happy whenever he visits her room, but how often has she done this, as against the innumerable times when she has sneered and railed at him, and he has put up with it as NO other royal husband would? It was a ridiculous exercise in self-pitying snivelling.

And what about the prior adhikar of his other wives? Is it ok for him to discard them for her and her alone?


The fact is that Jodha, while paying hypocritical lip service to the idea that Jalal has duties to all his wives,  is actually  as selfish and possessive as Ruqaiya. In fact, she  seems to love Jalal less than Ruqaiya, seeing that she cannot share his joy but can only think of her hurt ego. And  I still think it is far more of possessiveness  than prem.


Dismal performance: When  Jalal was indulging in his bhashan, and  all that lavish praise was being showered on Jodha, there were no appropriate reactions from her at all.  No joy lighting up her eyes on being elevated to such a high pedestal. No dawning happiness  about what all he feels for her, and  relief at such cast iron reassurance that she would be above all the rest, now and for ever more. Nothing.


She continues to stare at him  wide-eyed, and any flicker of softness, as after the (dubious, see below) comparison with Krishna and Radha  is too little and gone in an instant. At the end, after listening to Jalal bare his innermost self to her all over again, and literally worship her as the embodiment of his mohabbat,  all that she can do is to resurrect her sulky face, and say that she feels jealous of his other wives, and what can she do about it?


NB: As for the Kanha-Radha line of Jalal’s, he clearly does not know that Krishna never met Radha again after he left Vrindavan, though she is supposed to have been subsumed as his bansuri. Or that Krishna was also the beloved and loving husband of both the devoted Rukmini and the demanding and indulged Satyabhama.

And lastly, that he was the totally detached nityabrahmachari,  free of all carnal attachments, whose touch  could revive Uttara's child, later to be Parikshit, who had been  killed in her womb by Ashwattama’s astra, something that even the great brahmachari Bhishma could not.

So the Kanha--Radha parallel has its pitfalls that Jalal is, happily, unaware of as he is, metaphorically, falling at his Jodha Begum's feet.

Also that while she is railing against the prevailing custom of multiple wives, Jodha never dreams to applying this rule to her Kanha and his 64000 gopis (Jalal is 75% off with his number hpee ), or to his Radha and his queens.
================================================================

While delivering the breathlessly awaited line Kyonki hum  aapse prem karte hain , Shehenshah, Jodha’s  face  is   blank,  almost devoid of any expression, whereas there should have been a delighted shyness, a sudden glow in the eyes, a melting tenderness. Instead, she sounded exactly like a schoolgirl reciting a line in an elocution competition. Even I, sceptical as I am, had not thought that it could be quite so bad.


And Jodha's sulky nakhre AFTER she had told Jalal that she loved him were totally out of place , most unappealing,  and as stereotyped as those of a  1960s  film heroine. Maybe Santaram felt that this sort of sulking is Paridhi’s forte.


It was a major disappointment for me, even with my minimal expectations. Jodha last night pulled even Jalal down, something I had not thought to be possible. I felt so let down that I have no words to describe my disappointment.


Jalal’s descent: He plumbed fresh depths of self-flagellation and self-abasement before his Jodha Begum, in the process losing much of  his dignity and  good sense. I wanted to kick him with a stout pair of hobnailed boots. hpee


I did NOT enjoy watching Jalal describe himself, in that frantic peroration of his to Jodha Begum (called as such  26  times in all, setting my teeth further on edge), as a khoonkhaar,vaishi darinda,  who had been (miraculously) transformed into a nek dil insaan/Shahenshah – his forefinger pointed to reinforce the affirmation - by Jodha Begum and  Jodha Begum alone.

With such a declaration, echoing and reinforcing the original tag line of the show, plus the assurance that he would be known in history only as Jodha ka Jalal (that was the LIMIT!What the devil did he mean by that, the besotted chump? And what history is he talking about, for Heaven’s sake? ), what more could even the most rabid Jodha-phile want? Nothing.

What is the use of so many of you (Divya, where are you? And if you write another feel gooder about this episode, after that long  catalogue of Jalal’s virtues that you had made , I wash my hands of you! hpee  ) repeatedly setting out time and again, with solid proofs to back up your conclusion,  that while Jodha might have been a catalyst in the process of Jalal becoming Akbar, the seeds of all these virtues were already there in him? No use at  all.

I disliked the way in which he was telling Jodha that he had not even talked to Ruqaiya for a long time - this is how he talks of his bachpan ki dost  to another wife? And then he seems to be apologising for  having gone to Ruqaiya when Jodha had left Agra and he was down and depressed. That was even worse, for he was effectively dismissing the child as the product of an ill-considered impulse of his. I could not believe that Jalal could fall so low.

Jalal was pathetic, not just while lauding Jodha to the skies, but in  asserting that the suffering on no other begum of his touched him, only Jodha’s. What sort of human being is this, and what sort of emperor?

Not all of Rajat’s skills could salvage Jalal for me last night. He is a great performer – witness the look on his face and the tone of his voice as  he asks her Jab aap sab jaanti hain, to yeh jalan kyon?. And he was superb in that little interlude with Shehnaaz. His expresssions changed rapidly from instinctive distaste to resignation,  and then to reluctant benevolence, but still he was standoffish to the end. Marvellous. But the script crippled even such a master of nuance and variations.

THE Scene: As for the actual lovemaking scene, it was as flat as a pancake, and I for one could not imagine WHAT they needed a body double for. It was the sort of thing that is shown routinely in films, and  there was nothing there that was even remotely passionate. I normally avoid making comparisons with the film, but this time, I could not help thinking how much better the same scene was there.

If they wanted to show passion within the limits of an 8 pm TV slot,  and seeing that they had a good body double at hand, all the director had to do was to look at some old shots of, say, Silsila. The chemistry between Amitabh and Rekha there - with and without the tulips!-  literally scorched the screen. Here, not even the (stated) body double’s much praised bare back could do anything for the scene, alas. 

This so-called romantic pair is a pathetic washout. Look  at the way she hugs him,  with about  a foot between them! I have never seen any other pair as unconvincing as this one,  and not all of Rajat’s superb acting can elevate this jodi to what it should have been. It is like a one-legged race.

Folks, I am nearing the end of my tether as far as Jodha Akbar is concerned. I do not think I will feel like doing  many more posts if this is the kind of stuff I would have to  work on. I do not want to sound all the time like a dyspeptic grouch, nor do I want to spoil your mood with my acerbic reflections, which is what is bound to happen  if things do not improve drastically, a most unlikely prospect. So, for now, I shall sign off, and the future rests on the lap of the gods.


Shyamala/Aunty


Last edited by sashashyam on 2014-05-27, 16:04; edited 3 times in total

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Re: Jodha Akbar 247: Double descent

Post by --sumana13-- on 2014-05-27, 14:32

Dear. Shyamala ... I read your post finally today .. Sorry for delay on my part ..
You k ow I am one of those who are in pink haze ... Drooling on all the romantic scenes ...
I agree with all the points you have stated here ... And you are right .. No doubt .. But still that does not help me get out of the pink haze .... and i continue to float in romantic AkDha Dreamland
 Starry Love  Heart 




Last edited by --sumana13-- on 2014-05-29, 07:24; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Jodha Akbar 247: Double descent

Post by aashyagh on 2014-05-27, 15:13

Shyamala, I am one among them, who are in ecstasy with yesterday's episode and believe me, only for the last part of the episode and RT's performance overshadowed everything for me.
About passion or consummation, I felt it was very good and I really don't want to get into BD was used or not, since if we do not read the articles, normal viewer will not know that BD was used. 
 
Yes, Jodha did not show any happiness for the news of Jalal becoming a father, infact Jalal was surprised that Jodha can show jealousy towards Ruq's/for a woman who was going to be a mother with his child, but after all she was a woman, wasn't she?  I am not going to compare what Ruq wished for Jalal's kid at that point of time, she was indeed good.  And about Jodha's jealousy overtaking other emotions for that time, can understand.  Her complaint about Jalal having many wives had nothing to do that Rajvanshi's will not, I think every women probably felt that kind of feeling at that time, but they knew they cannot do anything about it, she just expressed her thoughts, she did not ask him to become one woman man, that's how I look into nor I will feel bad if they show Jalal spending his nights with other wives in the show.
Jalal's speech - I really want to ignore his lines of if people will remember "Jalaluddin mohammed or not, but will remember me as Jodha's Jalal", I want to whack the dialogue writer and I will choose to ignore now.
The comical part was when Jodha said "humein ersha hoti hain toh hum kya karein", the voice modulation was too funny. Yes, I agree PS's acting was not at all upto the mark, but like I said, RT overshadowed the episode entirely, so I loved the episode
Consummation- I really liked it was very aesthically done and many of Ekta's shows (where she shows the best consummation scenes), usually thye wake up fully clothed or atleast the husband with his "banian", but here they couldn't show that, and wanted Ruq to interrupt, so they have shown them fully clothed. 
 
Precap- Shyamala, no views about the precap?

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Re: Jodha Akbar 247: Double descent

Post by sashashyam on 2014-05-27, 16:00


None, Ash dear.  I did not like the episode at all, and I did not give a damn about the precap. After seeing all the comments from what I would call our folk, I begin to realise how widespread is the penchant for rejoicing  selectively at certain parts, and ignoring the grating parts. Not that there is anything wrong with that, only it is not for me.So I cannot discount all the demeaning things Jalal said and did, and the mean things this paragon of a Jodha Begum said and did.I would never have expected either to them to fall this far. 
Greeshma wrote on  my last thread that she has started simply discounting the bhashans of Jodha and Jalal.Why watch it at all then, if one does not take on board major character defining passages? Only for the tepid hugs and fake passion? We are never going to get anything warmer and more genuine with this pair. Jodha will go on looking coyly at him, that is all.

As for the body double needing to be used, that was a joke. There was nothing I could see that needed any body double. Nothing.
As for Rajat, I liked him the best in the little interlude with Shehnaaz, there were such variations of expressions on his face.
As for the rest, as the pet formulation goes, let us agree to disagree. I am fast losing interest in this show, and with this overweening Jodha and this fawning Jalal, the process is bound to be accelerated.Not a bad thing; it will save me  a lot of time.
Shyamala

aashyagh

Shyamala, I am one among them, who are in ecstasy with yesterday's episode and believe me, only for the last part of the episode and RT's performance overshadowed everything for me.
About passion or consummation, I felt it was very good and I really don't want to get into BD was used or not, since if we do not read the articles, normal viewer will not know that BD was used. 
 
Yes, Jodha did not show any happiness for the news of Jalal becoming a father, infact Jalal was surprised that Jodha can show jealousy towards Ruq's/for a woman who was going to be a mother with his child, but after all she was a woman, wasn't she?  I am not going to compare what Ruq wished for Jalal's kid at that point of time, she was indeed good. 

And about Jodha's jealousy overtaking other emotions for that time, can understand.  Her complaint about Jalal having many wives had nothing to do that Rajvanshi's will not, I think every women probably felt that kind of feeling at that time, but they knew they cannot do anything about it, she just expressed her thoughts, she did not ask him to become one woman man, that's how I look into nor I will feel bad if they show Jalal spending his nights with other wives in the show.

Jalal's speech - I really want to ignore his lines of if people will remember "Jalaluddin mohammed or not, but will remember me as Jodha's Jalal", I want to whack the dialogue writer and I will choose to ignore now.

The comical part was when Jodha said "humein ersha hoti hain toh hum kya karein", the voice modulation was too funny. Yes, I agree PS's acting was not at all upto the mark, but like I said, RT overshadowed the episode entirely, so I loved the episode

Consummation- I really liked it was very aesthically done and many of Ekta's shows (where she shows the best consummation scenes), usually thye wake up fully clothed or atleast the husband with his "banian", but here they couldn't show that, and wanted Ruq to interrupt, so they have shown them fully clothed. 
 
Precap- Shyamala, no views about the precap?

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Re: Jodha Akbar 247: Double descent

Post by gurveen on 2014-05-27, 17:19

shyamla is like jalal jisko ruks ki koi galti nahi dikhti hai aur jodha ki chhoti c baat par badkana aata hai Evil or Very Mad

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Re: Jodha Akbar 247: Double descent

Post by JeannieJA on 2014-05-27, 17:20

Thanks for the pm Aunty  long hug 
Agree with every single thing that you have written, hence I have not commented anywhere about the episode but in one post of Mandy's in the other forum appreciating Rajat's expressions that is it.  hpee 


Jodha pushing Jalal away again with the words "sparsh mat kijiye humein" were soo darned irritating. I mean does this supposedly Royal Princess of Amer and the Rajvanshi Begum of Shehenshah Jalal has any manners?? Does she have even an iota of respect for this man who is supposed to be her "pati parmeshwar"? Coz frankly I have never seen it from her, not in her mannerisms or the way she speaks with him.  Bang 


Absolutely hated Jodha's bhashan on how a Shehenshah can have multiple wives and how a woman cannot even look at another man let alone feel for him and women always have to suffer blah blah blah. If I wanted to watch a feminist fight for women's right I would watch the real deal in some documentary but having JodhaBai blab all that in a 16th century historical and that too in the SR special episode??? Enough to make me wanna bang my head on a wall.  Bang 


And what to say about Paridhi's acting??? How can an actress be so bad with the expressions? How can a female be shown so blank when a guy who she loves says all that about only loving her and only her having Shehenshah Jalal's heart? How can a female cry without any tears in her eyes?? Add to that the shoulder shaking and the sniffling and the crying tone of voice and zero pain on the face and eyes and you have the worst display of emoting I have ever witnessed.  Scared 
Again after he confesses and she confesses we have that absolutely weird push-stop session going on, made no sense to me at all. After the many many pushes when he finally turns to leave she runs behind him... is she not yet done with having him run behind her and when finally he gives up she goes running behind him. Can we not have a mature epic love story instead of this high school drama drama drama?  Evil or Very Mad 
And the actual Sr scene? Maybe I have been too naughty and watched a lotttttt of better SRs on TV Embarassed  and also watching English movies mainly, so an 8pm show could have been able to show passion or desire without it getting the A certificate. These are 22 year old's who after being married for a year are finally together after many ups and downs, mainly downs and this is how that happens???  Shocked 
And again after the coming together and they finally accepting each other as man and wife we will continue to have a detective begum running around solving stuff and eating credits and a sit on his ass and dream about Khaas Begum no.3 Shehenshah as per the Maha episode promo. Aunty I hate Rajat for making me watch this show  Bang 
Great Post Aunty  bounce 

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Re: Jodha Akbar 247: Double descent

Post by sashashyam on 2014-05-27, 17:26

Thank you, Jeannie dear, and welcome to the Minority Forum on the SR! As for your closing line, I feel exactly the same! I wanted to hit him half the time, starting from when he goes to her, like a poodle wagging its tail, asking what he had done now to  make her khafa. Yeh aadmi toh nahin hai, as my maid says, pajama hai.Shyamala AuntyJeannieJA wrote: Bang Thanks for the pm Aunty  long hug 
Agree with every single thing that you have written, hence I have not commented anywhere about the episode but in one post of Mandy's in the other forum appreciating Rajat's expressions that is it.  hpee 


Jodha pushing Jalal away again with the words "sparsh mat kijiye humein" were soo darned irritating. I mean does this supposedly Royal Princess of Amer and the Rajvanshi Begum of Shehenshah Jalal has any manners?? Does she have even an iota of respect for this man who is supposed to be her "pati parmeshwar"? Coz frankly I have never seen it from her, not in her mannerisms or the way she speaks with him.  Bang 


Absolutely hated Jodha's bhashan on how a Shehenshah can have multiple wives and how a woman cannot even look at another man let alone feel for him and women always have to suffer blah blah blah. If I wanted to watch a feminist fight for women's right I would watch the real deal in some documentary but having JodhaBai blab all that in a 16th century historical and that too in the SR special episode??? Enough to make me wanna bang my head on a wall.  Bang 


And what to say about Paridhi's acting??? How can an actress be so bad with the expressions? How can a female be shown so blank when a guy who she loves says all that about only loving her and only her having Shehenshah Jalal's heart? How can a female cry without any tears in her eyes?? Add to that the shoulder shaking and the sniffling and the crying tone of voice and zero pain on the face and eyes and you have the worst display of emoting I have ever witnessed.  Scared 
Again after he confesses and she confesses we have that absolutely weird push-stop session going on, made no sense to me at all. After the many many pushes when he finally turns to leave she runs behind him... is she not yet done with having him run behind her and when finally he gives up she goes running behind him. Can we not have a mature epic love story instead of this high school drama drama drama?  Evil or Very Mad 
And the actual Sr scene? Maybe I have been too naughty and watched a lotttttt of better SRs on TV Embarassed  and also watching English movies mainly, so an 8pm show could have been able to show passion or desire without it getting the A certificate. These are 22 year old's who after being married for a year are finally together after many ups and downs, mainly downs and this is how that happens???  Shocked 
And again after the coming together and they finally accepting each other as man and wife we will continue to have a detective begum running around solving stuff and eating credits and a sit on his ass and dream about Khaas Begum no.3 Shehenshah as per the Maha episode promo. Aunty I hate Rajat for making me watch this show  Bang 
Great Post Aunty  bounce 

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Re: Jodha Akbar 247: Double descent

Post by aashyagh on 2014-05-27, 17:30

sashashyam wrote:

None, Ash dear.  I did not like the episode at all, and I did not give a damn about the precap. After seeing all the comments from what I would call our folk, I begin to realise how widespread is the penchant for rejoicing  selectively at certain parts, and ignoring the grating parts. Not that there is anything wrong with that, only it is not for me.So I cannot discount all the demeaning things Jalal said and did, and the mean things this paragon of a Jodha Begum said and did.I would never have expected either to them to fall this far. 
Greeshma wrote on  my last thread that she has started simply discounting the bhashans of Jodha and Jalal.Why watch it at all then, if one does not take on board major character defining passages? Only for the tepid hugs and fake passion? We are never going to get anything warmer and more genuine with this pair. Jodha will go on looking coyly at him, that is all.

As for the body double needing to be used, that was a joke. There was nothing I could see that needed any body double. Nothing.
As for Rajat, I liked him the best in the little interlude with Shehnaaz, there were such variations of expressions on his face.
As for the rest, as the pet formulation goes, let us agree to disagree. I am fast losing interest in this show, and with this overweening Jodha and this fawning Jalal, the process is bound to be accelerated.Not a bad thing; it will save me  a lot of time.
Shyamala

aashyagh

Shyamala, I am one among them, who are in ecstasy with yesterday's episode and believe me, only for the last part of the episode and RT's performance overshadowed everything for me.
About passion or consummation, I felt it was very good and I really don't want to get into BD was used or not, since if we do not read the articles, normal viewer will not know that BD was used. 
 
Yes, Jodha did not show any happiness for the news of Jalal becoming a father, infact Jalal was surprised that Jodha can show jealousy towards Ruq's/for a woman who was going to be a mother with his child, but after all she was a woman, wasn't she?  I am not going to compare what Ruq wished for Jalal's kid at that point of time, she was indeed good. 

And about Jodha's jealousy overtaking other emotions for that time, can understand.  Her complaint about Jalal having many wives had nothing to do that Rajvanshi's will not, I think every women probably felt that kind of feeling at that time, but they knew they cannot do anything about it, she just expressed her thoughts, she did not ask him to become one woman man, that's how I look into nor I will feel bad if they show Jalal spending his nights with other wives in the show.

Jalal's speech - I really want to ignore his lines of if people will remember "Jalaluddin mohammed or not, but will remember me as Jodha's Jalal", I want to whack the dialogue writer and I will choose to ignore now.

The comical part was when Jodha said "humein ersha hoti hain toh hum kya karein", the voice modulation was too funny. Yes, I agree PS's acting was not at all upto the mark, but like I said, RT overshadowed the episode entirely, so I loved the episode

Consummation- I really liked it was very aesthically done and many of Ekta's shows (where she shows the best consummation scenes), usually thye wake up fully clothed or atleast the husband with his "banian", but here they couldn't show that, and wanted Ruq to interrupt, so they have shown them fully clothed. 
 
Precap- Shyamala, no views about the precap?
Shyamala, I can understand your POV and it is not that I disagree with your views, it's just that, enjoying the best of the episodes shown, and only for Jalal/RT, honestly I never liked RT, nor I watched PRC. When I heard that Ekta's choice is RT, I was disappointed, I was more disappointed when I heard about PS as well, and first few episodes I did not watch it for the same reason, but after I started watching it, I got addicted which I had thought I will never get addicted to and I was glad that my POV about RT was changed and no one else could gave played this role other than RT, I wish I could say the same about PS, I never felt bad when I heard that she would be replaced, I would have been glad.  But you don't get it all, and the same with the show.  I will watch it till I feel Jalal is not annoying me (the thing annoys me is the way he rants Jodha Begum Bang ), I will continue to watch him.

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Re: Jodha Akbar 247: Double descent

Post by akdha on 2014-05-27, 18:06

Hi Aunty, it was actually a shocking post for me to see!!, but i liked it! differences are needed, so that individuality is brightened! about the epi, i was satisfied, because , i want Jodha to pour out her inner fear, so that by speaking it, she gets relieved and both of them be their true selves, instead of one keep on sacrificing and fear of losing it, its better to say the fact, and get an consolment of nothing will happen like that to her, eventhough it is unreal! i thought the consoling and assurance were all done to make her face the real world!! i believe , i am saying something meaningful!! the diff between ruq and jo for me, was the expressing of their turmoil to jalal, and i am sure if ruq, instead of cracking her furnitures, talked to him, about her inner fear of losing her love(him), which he wishes for, and he understands it well, which she missed!! reg the exprsns, i don't have knowledge, since i don't have prior experience on it!! i hope i don't miss u, for this difference in my thoughts, and i thought i should be true to the one, whom i am fond of and to whom i come up with some complaints or the other, everytime!! hpee

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Re: Jodha Akbar 247: Double descent

Post by sashashyam on 2014-05-27, 18:09

Yes, Ash, his Jodha Begums set my poor teeth on edge all the time. This episode had 26 Jodha Begums. I counted them. Shyamalaaashyagh wrote:
sashashyam wrote:

None, Ash dear.  I did not like the episode at all, and I did not give a damn about the precap. After seeing all the comments from what I would call our folk, I begin to realise how widespread is the penchant for rejoicing  selectively at certain parts, and ignoring the grating parts. Not that there is anything wrong with that, only it is not for me.So I cannot discount all the demeaning things Jalal said and did, and the mean things this paragon of a Jodha Begum said and did.I would never have expected either to them to fall this far. 
Greeshma wrote on  my last thread that she has started simply discounting the bhashans of Jodha and Jalal.Why watch it at all then, if one does not take on board major character defining passages? Only for the tepid hugs and fake passion? We are never going to get anything warmer and more genuine with this pair. Jodha will go on looking coyly at him, that is all.

As for the body double needing to be used, that was a joke. There was nothing I could see that needed any body double. Nothing.
As for Rajat, I liked him the best in the little interlude with Shehnaaz, there were such variations of expressions on his face.
As for the rest, as the pet formulation goes, let us agree to disagree. I am fast losing interest in this show, and with this overweening Jodha and this fawning Jalal, the process is bound to be accelerated.Not a bad thing; it will save me  a lot of time.
Shyamala

aashyagh

Shyamala, I am one among them, who are in ecstasy with yesterday's episode and believe me, only for the last part of the episode and RT's performance overshadowed everything for me.
About passion or consummation, I felt it was very good and I really don't want to get into BD was used or not, since if we do not read the articles, normal viewer will not know that BD was used. 
 
Yes, Jodha did not show any happiness for the news of Jalal becoming a father, infact Jalal was surprised that Jodha can show jealousy towards Ruq's/for a woman who was going to be a mother with his child, but after all she was a woman, wasn't she?  I am not going to compare what Ruq wished for Jalal's kid at that point of time, she was indeed good. 

And about Jodha's jealousy overtaking other emotions for that time, can understand.  Her complaint about Jalal having many wives had nothing to do that Rajvanshi's will not, I think every women probably felt that kind of feeling at that time, but they knew they cannot do anything about it, she just expressed her thoughts, she did not ask him to become one woman man, that's how I look into nor I will feel bad if they show Jalal spending his nights with other wives in the show.

Jalal's speech - I really want to ignore his lines of if people will remember "Jalaluddin mohammed or not, but will remember me as Jodha's Jalal", I want to whack the dialogue writer and I will choose to ignore now.

The comical part was when Jodha said "humein ersha hoti hain toh hum kya karein", the voice modulation was too funny. Yes, I agree PS's acting was not at all upto the mark, but like I said, RT overshadowed the episode entirely, so I loved the episode

Consummation- I really liked it was very aesthically done and many of Ekta's shows (where she shows the best consummation scenes), usually thye wake up fully clothed or atleast the husband with his "banian", but here they couldn't show that, and wanted Ruq to interrupt, so they have shown them fully clothed. 
 
Precap- Shyamala, no views about the precap?
Shyamala, I can understand your POV and it is not that I disagree with your views, it's just that, enjoying the best of the episodes shown, and only for Jalal/RT, honestly I never liked RT, nor I watched PRC. When I heard that Ekta's choice is RT, I was disappointed, I was more disappointed when I heard about PS as well, and first few episodes I did not watch it for the same reason, but after I started watching it, I got addicted which I had thought I will never get addicted to and I was glad that my POV about RT was changed and no one else could gave played this role other than RT, I wish I could say the same about PS, I never felt bad when I heard that she would be replaced, I would have been glad.  But you don't get it all, and the same with the show.  I will watch it till I feel Jalal is not annoying me (the thing annoys me is the way he rants Jodha Begum Bang ), I will continue to watch him.

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Re: Jodha Akbar 247: Double descent

Post by riyya6 on 2014-05-27, 18:19

Aunthy... A very good post indeed ....

I agree with each n every point u made. I just watch he epi n it was flat. The expression of jodha n Jalal was not in place, they were as though let's just do it as per script and finish.....

I love both Jalal n jodha as a character.... But have to say yday even both have flaws n jodha even more....

Ther are few scenes bd was surely used, one can notice it..... N the scene wer he kisses her back,what expression was those n when she did kind of crush the bed sheet even that was too rough.... Both did not give the feel of romantic.... I wad like what the... N wat was shaguni bai in the middle

And what was preaching abt too many wives, n Jalal saying ur the one. I felt the movie was executed well, they are each other n confess they loved n they consummate. It was really beautiful... One of the reason I followed JA serial is Bcoz I loved the movie.....

It's has been nice reading all your post so far, even though at times I never commented but I do read it... I respect ur wish but dun give up writing aunthy.... Do make a come back...

As for me, tbh I have lost interest in the show even before sr.... When benazir track was on... But then came back... After this I have no idea..... long hug 

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Re: Jodha Akbar 247: Double descent

Post by shiningways2407 on 2014-05-27, 18:34

I guess I also come in minority becoz only adiana's n mangy's post made me comment something. 
 Well once again u made a nice post n gave a reality check.
 While many r busy celebrating Akdha milan,but the fact cant be neglected that in yesterday's epi no character was worth watching neither jalal nor jodha. I actually continued watching it for RT while PS continued to diappoint me with pathetic acting. 
 Seriously speaking the epi was not at all like consummation one. 
With so much bhasan. It only cleared my doubt that jodha heard everything regarding ruk's child n is even more pathetic than Ruks. Forget about the fact that jalal gave news of him becoming a father, in reality even if we hear of someone's pregnancy we show some sign of happiness n concern.but here she was talking only about 'I, me aur main'. N her bhasan on polygamy, I actually felt like mentioning the polygamy system in Rajput in Mandygy's post but becoz of partial mod I stopped myself. Throughout her bhasan on polygamy I was actually recalling ur post which mentioned about rajputana's polygamy :) 
N jalal will make jodha do tandav on his head. What was the need of saying '' BHALE HE HAME LOG SHENSHAH JALLALUDIN MOHAMMAD K NAAM SE NA JAANE, MAGAR JODHA K JALAL K NAAM SE JAANENGE''??  Kyun bhai he has done mastry in lovology??? He is romeo or what that people will talk about his love affair. 
In whole speech I only liked parallelism with kanha(though I dont know the reality). Jodha mata kanha k naam se aankhon me chamak aa gayi lekin baaki saare scenes me blank pari thi. 
I still dont feel jodha in in love with jalal. Whats the guarantee that she will not taunt him again for sskl?? Yesterday also she indirectly  taunt him for that. Once ruks will say that jalal simply used her n she will believe.
 For me  this couple is half baked thats y I wished that RT's 2nd award (in noro plus gold award)should be his solo one n not jodi one. :)

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Thank u for the pm Aunty

Post by sunshine-sun on 2014-05-27, 18:49

hpee  
I loved the consummation scene but yes i knew it lashing is coming from u ...i also felt like  Bang her but i forget that bcz she spoke of insecurities ..now we shud atleast see what happens next ...i shud wait for whole scene of confrontation to unfold  btw jodha n rukaiyah ... hpee

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Re: Jodha Akbar 247: Double descent

Post by varshaakulkarni on 2014-05-27, 19:24

Hello aunty .... Thank u for taking out your precious time in giving your two cents ... for this not-so-worth JA show ...... only for US .... i have not watched the show from last week ... but i watched yesterday's epi ... it was not at all worth watching .... after a year of wait all we get is a  scene of consummation , with a blank jodha ... 

Okay certain things were good like the kind of jealousy she showed , finally ... behaving like a normal women .... & ofcourse our rajat's expression where a treat to watch ... & as u wrote about the whole krishna - radha bhashan of jalal ... indeed he is unaware of the facts that u have mentioned ....  guess cv's need to refresh their knowledge   .....  I too hated the way jalal was mentioning himself as a cruel , khoonkhaar , blah blah king before jodha & how she turned him to be a good king .... He just cant give all the credit to jodha .... can he ....??? he too is responsible for the self change ... isn't he ....?? 

Aunty ...after watching yesterday's epi.... I think jodha was jealous of ruku & jalal getting close not becoz ruku is pregnant ..... This is what I derived from the episode, though I might be wrong here  .... but I also agree with you that she should have been happy with HIS happiness of becoming a father .. instead of sulking like a girl for not getting the attention she has always got ... 

And the much awaited bhashan of her being the "bechari abla naari" who has to endure the pain of accepting to share her husband with other begums was a bit childish ..... Aunty I agree with you that she being the 16th century queen is raised in that environment .. had it been she married to any rajvanshi king ... even he would have had more than 1 queen ... why so much of high expectation's from jalal only ....??? 

You are very right in speculating her nature aunty ... she is too much spoiled in her maika & now here in her sasural by jalal .... infact jalal has spoiled her in every possible way & now he is already burning his hands for his deeds ....!!  the way she was behaving yesterday with jalal it seems her ego was hurt as jalal ran to ruqaiyya by diverting his attention ..that is why she was upset !!

To conclude i would say jodha is "Highly Obsessed With Herself" the amount of attention jalal has been giving her from the day 1 has made her get obsessed with herself too much .....  so I dont see any difference between ruqaiyya's nature & jodha's nature ... both are same ....

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Re: Jodha Akbar 247: Double descent

Post by Greeshma014 on 2014-05-27, 19:55

Aunty, after reading ur post i made this comment on ur previous thread..so i just copied it from there..


"Aunty, first of all the whole bhashan bhasi by jalal -jo doesn't make any sense ,atleast for me..ok, i can understand she was jealous and all..but i wish once she congrts him,"hum khush hai ki shehensha ki aap pita banne vala hai, par hamara dil yeh bardash nai kar sakta ki aap kisi aur ke saat....."..bas, yehi kaafi thi..but she was like, me. my pyaar, my this , my that... Evil or Very Mad  Evil or Very Mad ..and jalal, o.k..he wanna confess his love, very gud..i like his radha-krishna example too..but instead of confessing his love, he was more keen on explaininghw she made him human, he didn't knw when he went to ruk blah blah.thank god, he didn't told dat baby is not his to pacify his beloved wife...actually i don't care what he says nowadays..yeha jo ke saamne kuch kahenge, aur kal ruk ke saamne kuch aur kahengey..i don't want explain pari's acting ..i already told dat many times..and abt her yest.'s acting, u said it all aunty..nothing more to add..SR was good..forget abt comparing with Hrithwik-Ash..it's nothing compared to other tv shows SR..And 8 pm slot is not an excuse for dis..becoz IPkKND gave one of the most passionate , hot , sizzling SR, dat too in 8 pm slot..anyway like someone said here before dat beggers can't choose..dis is our fate..it was good, short, and sweet..dat's it..yes, it's very gud according to this show's standards.."

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Re: Jodha Akbar 247: Double descent

Post by Greeshma014 on 2014-05-27, 20:07

Aunty, i was 100% sure dat Jo heard jalal-Ruk conversation..becoz when Jalal said to Ruk dat he gave the most happiest news today, same time Jo remembering dat FB..i commented dat in ur thread too..i think u missed it..
Aunty i loved ur views abt whole Radha-Krishna line..meine uske barey Mein socha hi nai..ur too brilliant..when shaguni bai made her guest appearence and gave her bhashan abt SR, next i expected Salim christi and his bhashan..Afterall it was less romantic and more bhashan bhasi episode..I'm glad dat dey done with the SR..now dey can concentrate on Akbar more..don't want more hand,eye,dupatta consumation..enough of dis torture..now dey should concentrate more on politics..Lets see..*fingers crossed*..

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Re: Jodha Akbar 247: Double descent

Post by adianasr on 2014-05-27, 20:40

Shyamala, thanks for the pm. As I had said some time back, I no longer have any expectations from Paridhi hence I am not disappointed - I have only been hearing her words - and frankly I understand where she was coming from even for a 16th Century queen who knew polygamy was the norm - Even Radha threw such tantrums with Krishna - even though she was herself older to Krishna and supposed to have been a married woman - especially with regards to the other gopika vinita and other lesser gopis too - so Jodha showing her 'irshya' when he spends his time with his other wives and gives of himself to them is ok - but unfortunately Pari does not know how to express such a complex feeling.

As for Jalal's dialogues - there are only 2 lines that were the main lines - all the rest was like the hay used for packing delicate knick knacks - these 2 lines of Jalal that linger on were 'How can you compare yourself to the rest? and you are the only one who can push Jalaluddin Mohammad away becoz you have his heart' - the rest was fluff!!!

As for Rajat - right from the first frame to the last he was the only one - and yes as you say this love story is a one-legged one but Paridhi cant be blamed for this - she is competent but when facing Rajat, competent is bad.

And the only act of Jodha's that I have mentioned is the back hug when Jalal was leaving - the only act where she takes that leap of faith and lets her fear go.

And as for the entire scene - my yardstick has been other shows and the manner in which they show intimacy - JA was way better in comparison - and all thanks to RT's Jalal.

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Re: Jodha Akbar 247: Double descent

Post by Greeshma014 on 2014-05-27, 21:23

Really felt bad for Ruk today..But precap..grrr...why dey r always doin dis to her character..???.. Her tears, pain ,pretenting to b strong in front of all begums..OMG..it made me emotional..den came precap..i don't knw what to say..i think when Jo abt to malish Ruk's leg, Jalal wil cum and say he'l do it for Ruk..Ruk won't allow him to do dat,and he'l call any bandhi to do maalish..i was very much upset with Ruk when she faked her pregnency..But When i was watching today's episode i felt she was justified doing dat..i'm in a very confused state whether to like her or hate her...?? I can only b angry with her for her stupid plans..i can't hate her..never ,ever..

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Re: Jodha Akbar 247: Double descent

Post by knumnum on 2014-05-27, 21:41

Greeshma014 wrote:Really felt bad for Ruk today..But precap..grrr...why dey r always doin dis to her character..???.. Her tears, pain ,pretenting to b strong in front of all begums..OMG..it made me emotional..den came precap..i don't knw what to say..i think when Jo abt to malish Ruk's leg, Jalal wil cum and say he'l do it for Ruk..Ruk won't allow him to do dat,and he'l call any bandhi to do maalish..i was very much upset with Ruk when she faked her pregnency..But When i was watching today's episode i felt she was justified doing dat..i'm in a very confused state whether to like her or hate her...?? I can only b angry with her for her stupid plans..i can't hate her..never ,ever..

Grees, it only means that Lavina is being successful in portraying Ruks cos of which we are having such conflicting thoughts abt Ruks  hpee

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Re: Jodha Akbar 247: Double descent

Post by knumnum on 2014-05-27, 22:00

Aunty, I really really really didnt like the SR episode at all. There were no positive points for me in thr. RT's acting doesnt count anymore cos he s awesome in watever scene he is portraying.


1. I didnt like Shehnaz and her stupid hatred dialogues. What are all the soldiers doing wen she was breaking the chain and throwing the stones or watever they are all around? 


2. I didnt like the monologue of Jodha cos it didnt achieve anything. She continued to say the same bhashan even after Jalal asked her wats wrong. So tat monologue was just a waste of time.


3. I didnt like the way Jodha treated Jalal. Pushing him, telling dnt touch me so rudely.


4. I didnt understand wen she said how can anyone be upset wen he s the shehenshah? Wat does it mean?


5. Her dialogues abt how a wife cannot even think of another person made me wonder if she s complaining that she cannot have more than 1 man as her hubby? If I am thinking this way then it only means tat PS was not gud enuff to convey wat she was saying.


6. I didnt like Jalal's justification. Wat is he doing to her by praising her so much? Its more like baiting the fish wid false tareef! Really Jalal? U ll be known as Jodha ke Jalal? WTH! Jalal's reasoning was very stupid yesterday. He has also started hitting new lows these days.


7. The expressions of Jodha wen Jalal is telling her tat he ll be known by her name, were like as if she s finally satisfied wid Jalal cos she ll be popular in history. Such pride Jodha???!!!! She made me think if tats the ONLY reason why Jodha agreed for SR.


8. I agree Jealousy is a gud thing but her reasons are all wrong. She has acted as if she s coming from entirely different world and like as if she didnt even know that polygamy existed!


9. Finally coming to the SR, looking at Jalal's face, one can surmise wen BD was used and wen PS acted. Wid PS, u can see the tension on RT, a sort of uncomfortable feeling on his face.


10. PS' expressions were to really die for! I wish I didnt see them. They were so pathetic, dreadful and horrific.


I kno many of them ll say lets jus be happy wid the SR cos we are seeing Jodha madam uttering the prem dialogues finally! I dnt agree, I am not watching this serial just for their SR. I am an intelligent viewer and I would like the PH to credit us for it and not throw this crap at us in the name of SR and romance!!


Aunty, I have already given up hope for this. I didnt watch this serial since April 4th. And I watched yday eppy only cos Jeannie said so. Otherwise I wud hv gladly skipped it. And as i said, it was utter crap!

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Re: Jodha Akbar 247: Double descent

Post by Greeshma014 on 2014-05-27, 22:56

knumnum wrote:
Greeshma014 wrote:Really felt bad for Ruk today..But precap..grrr...why dey r always doin dis to her character..???.. Her tears, pain ,pretenting to b strong in front of all begums..OMG..it made me emotional..den came precap..i don't knw what to say..i think when Jo abt to malish Ruk's leg, Jalal wil cum and say he'l do it for Ruk..Ruk won't allow him to do dat,and he'l call any bandhi to do maalish..i was very much upset with Ruk when she faked her pregnency..But When i was watching today's episode i felt she was justified doing dat..i'm in a very confused state whether to like her or hate her...?? I can only b angry with her for her stupid plans..i can't hate her..never ,ever..

Grees, it only means that Lavina is being successful in portraying Ruks cos of which we are having such conflicting thoughts abt Ruks  hpee
completely agree with you..she nailed every scene..but why she always hides her pain ,and wears a mask of arogant ,happy girl?? Why she is not sharing her pain with anyone?? Forget abt Jalal, he is no more her friend, he is ghulam of Jo..He admitted it himself today..Hw i wish Ruk's ammi alive..Or any real sister (not like Salima type)..no parents,no siblings, no children..Her life is really a tragedy..

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Re: Jodha Akbar 247: Double descent

Post by clarissasham on 2014-05-28, 01:45

Ha ha great post aynty though I loved the episode ....on the while it was beautiful for me as I expected more crappy SR scene.


But agree with you on many points 

First jalals bhashan and the number of jodha begums used uffo . ...₹#### head desk 


Second the blank exo by pari but as per reports a new director shot the scenes 



Then y I dunno 


But on the whole it was above my expectations and loved tuesadays post sr h angover too 


Truly Rajat your are awesome

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Re: Jodha Akbar 247: Double descent

Post by Greeshma014 on 2014-05-28, 07:37

Heard dat ekta was planned too much for dis SR,and even replaced director to shoot dis..If dis is true, den i want to advise ekta ..don't plan too much, it spoils everything..same happened here too..i'm a viewer of most of the ekta shows..i can say without any doubt dat it was the most worse SR till date compared to her other shows's SR..Just one comparison of JA with her previous shows,we'l get the truth..one can say it was royal, emotional and all..dat's why dis type of SR..But it's very pathetic ,lame excuse..

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Re: Jodha Akbar 247: Double descent

Post by shobita on 2014-05-28, 08:23

Hello Aunty,
I actually liked the episode so was in two minds about reading your post after your statutory warning

But I decided to read ur post as I appreciate your honest take.

I do agree on your pov of double descent of Jalal. But I don't agree with the same wrt to Jodha. I was happy to see her jealous and feel her character has been redeemed at least for some time - she was all this while Meera Bai....so a human, fallible Jodha Bai for me was a welcome relief. I think she is still Good hearted, it was her jealousy that spoke and she had to vent out her jealousy. I am not sure anybody else other than Jalal would have understood her pov so I am ok with her outburst. Besides, I think her jealousy is innocuous.


However, I do agree that it has been a double descent as far as Jalal's character is concerned.

The most significant irritant in this episode so far has been the views of both Jo and Ja regarding a polygamous marriage..Jodha's take on such a marriage was predictably on her feminist line of thinking....why should only a woman suffer.....does she mean to say that she too wants to have more than one husband? And Jalal's take was far worse......as far as I am aware, in Islam the there is a rule that you can have one or two or three or four wives....but the caveat is that if you can't do justice to all, then you can have none......I think Jalal deserves no wives if he continues to be Bhakt No. 1 of Jodha

I loved your take on the Kanha angle......I too am of the belief that Shri Krishna was an eternal Bramhachari and I feel that it is not nice to humanise Gods (strictly my pov only).

As far as the SR was concerned, I can only say this much. I thought it was nice. I am actually not a great fan of Ash and her acting. So as far the movie was concerned, the passion quotient was upped only by Hrithik and Ash's contribution was that she looked beautiful (again strictly my pov). So I thought, Paridhi with all her reservations did better than just looking good. Though I must admit I would have been horror struck if she had done an Ash by dropping off her duppatta considering her not so flat midriff.

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Re: Jodha Akbar 247: Double descent

Post by knumnum on 2014-05-28, 09:19

Greeshma014 wrote:Heard dat ekta was planned too much for dis SR,and even replaced director to shoot dis..If dis is true, den i want to advise ekta ..don't plan too much, it spoils everything..same happened here too..i'm a viewer of most of the ekta shows..i can say without any doubt dat it was the most worse SR till date compared to her other shows's SR..Just one comparison of JA with her previous shows,we'l get the truth..one can say it was royal, emotional and all..dat's why dis type of SR..But it's very pathetic ,lame excuse..


Grees I dont think EK was planning any such extra thing. If she had, then this wud have been publicized and marketed for atleast a week. But all this was done so silently that I think EK herself was not interested in showcasing this SR or she doesnt hv the confidence on the lead pair to get something extra ordinary which explains the lack of promos and PR for this eppy.

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Re: Jodha Akbar 247: Double descent

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