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Jodha Akbar 262: Confusing emotions

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Re: Jodha Akbar 262: Confusing emotions

Post by munnirony on 2014-06-16, 21:00

congrats. now jodha will go to wars bcoz almost all the villains r ladies. i was asking mandy tht how will jalal fight MC since she is a woman. oh god i just want to cut off my tongue. Evil or Very Mad

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Re: Jodha Akbar 262: Confusing emotions

Post by Greeshma014 on 2014-06-16, 21:07

this is the limittt...i don't knw why i'm still watching dis crap??? grrrr.....

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Re: Jodha Akbar 262: Confusing emotions

Post by munnirony on 2014-06-16, 21:11

Greeshma014 wrote:this is the limittt...i don't knw why i'm still watching dis crap??? grrrr.....

whts new yaar!!!!! this show is about giving all the credit to jodha. the show gets TRPs bcoz of jodha, rajat dont have any contributions. now jodha will do never-seen before stunts, will be praised like anything & our rajat will ultimately show his talent only in the award functions. Bang

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Re: Jodha Akbar 262: Confusing emotions

Post by Greeshma014 on 2014-06-16, 21:22

munni, in dis show ,jalal is only for dreaming,crying,playing chess,doing arti to kanha,singing hunars of his azeez begam,bear the tantrums of his jaan begam  etc..he is really like a show peice nowadays..
munnirony wrote:
Greeshma014 wrote:this is the limittt...i don't knw why i'm still watching dis crap??? grrrr.....

whts new yaar!!!!! this show is about giving all the credit to jodha. the show gets TRPs bcoz of jodha, rajat dont have any contributions. now jodha will do never-seen before stunts, will be praised like anything & our rajat will ultimately show his talent only in the award functions. Bang

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Re: Jodha Akbar 262: Confusing emotions

Post by munnirony on 2014-06-16, 21:28

then whts the point in casting a rajat tokas??? they should have casted any tom, dick & harry for jalal's role. this clearly shows who is the fav of the PH, but still rajat & lavina will be always blamed for partiality. Evil or Very Mad

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Re: Jodha Akbar 262: Confusing emotions

Post by Greeshma014 on 2014-06-16, 21:46

@munni i think today's coin idea was too jodha's..he mentioned sumthing like dat in precap..blaming rajat and lavina  is not a new thing..even  sv is blamed becoz he shoots RukLal scenes so perfectly..In initial episodes , rukku was shown giving advices to jallu, but only when it needed..here jo giving him advices in each and everything under the sun..is it necessary to give him advices everyday  in every matter..and showing her more mahaan, whenever jalal-jodha speakes,she always mention ruk..not only ruk, i'm also felt dat cvs doing dis to make more more mahaan..

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Re: Jodha Akbar 262: Confusing emotions

Post by munnirony on 2014-06-16, 22:03

I also think tht the coin idea is jodha's. Obviously mentioning about ruku is to site jodha's mahanta. Each nd evry step is about jodha. Now strange thing is tht liberal ways were started by jalal it was shown but now total credit will be given to her. Even the tirthkar abolision thing , it was jalal who got upset about it but abolished it bcoz jodha said. Im just pissed off.

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Re: Jodha Akbar 262: Confusing emotions

Post by adianasr on 2014-06-16, 23:01

Hi Shyamala, back frm vacation and catching up on last week's epis. Just seen last monday's epi as of now - a lot has been said of Jalal losing focus hearing Jodha's singing - to me it was not Jodha's singing that mesmerized Jalal - in fact if you look back on the scenes of the sufi qawaal's at Ajmer whose singing also mesmerized Jalal into losing himself in the Sema, this sequence of Jalal being mesmerized when Jodha sings is similar - it is to do with the depth of feeling and spirituality expressed thru the music which captures Jalal - whether sung by the Sufi singers or by Jodha or by any other - what is being presented here (as well as the movie JA if you recall) is pull on his soul that Akbar felt - and not only Jodha and the sufi singers, it is said that whenever Akbar heard singing which came from the singer's soul and was spiritual, he would loose himself in the music - and this was the reason for his special regard for music - for him music was a means of communicating with the Absolute and he has even mentioned the same. So every time I see Jalal being pulled by Jodha's singing - to me it seems more of a Soul being pulled by the music of spirituality and less by the singer - as I keep saying Jodha is the key to Jalal's locked doors.

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Re: Jodha Akbar 262: Confusing emotions

Post by munnirony on 2014-06-16, 23:20

@adina, my mom had told me tht jalal himself was a very gud singer.

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Re: Jodha Akbar 262: Confusing emotions

Post by adianasr on 2014-06-16, 23:37

He was Shreya and in my post on Akbar in IF I have made a seperate post on Akbar and music. He was also a composer and played musical instruments. He also knew music theory and understood the minutest nuances of music.  hpee 


munnirony wrote:@adina, my mom had told me tht jalal himself was a very gud singer.

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Re: Jodha Akbar 262: Confusing emotions

Post by munnirony on 2014-06-16, 23:49

adianasr wrote:He was Shreya and in my post on Akbar in IF I have made a seperate post on Akbar and music. He was also a composer and played musical instruments. He also knew music theory and understood the minutest nuances of music.  hpee 


munnirony wrote:@adina, my mom had told me tht jalal himself was a very gud singer.
ya my mom had told me he used to play instruments. i wish balaji shows jalal's hunars as well rather than talking only about jodha's hunars.

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Re: Jodha Akbar 262: Confusing emotions

Post by sandhya on 2014-06-17, 00:42

sashashyam wrote:My poor pet, how irritated you are! Never mind. Mahachuchak will arrive very soon, give Mahaam a run for her money if she is still around, and generally raise hell. 

Aunty, I expected high when Todar Mal joined Services in Agra, and  he has become the  next Man Singh!

Ruqaiya , as I wrote to Lashy on Divya's IF thread, it is unjust to compare Ruqaiya with Mahaam.  
There is a ruthlessness and a level of cruelty in Mahaam that is completely absent in Ruqaiya.

Wish there was.  It would have been better than this silly version, who is foolish enough to cheat so big without any plan or returns in the long run. Evil or Very Mad 
 
 
That is why I feel that with a proper upbringing , her negative traits would have been  suppresssed and the positive ones enhanced. But she never  got that kind of upbringing. The real fault re: Ruqaiya's  poor  upbringing lies with Hamida Banu. She was a small girl when she came into Hamida's care, and she could have been shaped into a caring young woman, who behaved with the kind of dignity and benevolence one would expect of the chief queen. Hamida seems to have been a complete flop in the mothering department - witness the kind of products she turned out, first Ruqaiya and then Bakshi Banu!

Upbringing alone don't matter. The person too does. Are we to believe that BK and MA are best for growing children! And why was Salim the way he was, with Jalal and Jodha as parents? Ruqaiya was spoilt rotten by Jalal.
 
Then there is Jalal.  As I never tire of repeating, he  should, once he started getting so close to Jodha, have sat Ruqaiya down and explained to her, gently but firmly, that she would continue to be his dearest  friend and his Begum-e-Khaas, but he cared a lot for Jodha too and she would have to adjust to that and behave well with Jodha. He never even attempts that, taking shelter under his pat excuse that he cannot understand women.

He is, like most men, reluctant to face sticky situations, that is all! But that does not stop him for offering elaborate and very flowery explanations to tackle Jodha's nakhre. Whereas he does not make even a fraction of that effort to tackle the nakhre of his childhood friend. 

Exactly! Where was all that saintly patience and understanding he displayed those days when it came to understanding Ruqaiya?  Instead he only fanned the fire of her jealousy and had fun! Evil or Very Mad 
 
Knowing perfectly well that Ruqaiya is jealous of Jodha, Jalal should have known better than going to town making such a fuss over her return. Ok, he is in love for the first time, so let that pass.

But again, he is so OTT while lauding her to the skies for her courage during the attack on the way to the orphanage, that even Jodha feels awkward about it. Even among siblings, praising one child too much in front of the other always causes negative reactions. And these are soutens!

Not just prainsing and singing hymns, but also excluding the other from the circle of importance after having pampered it for years!

So many thanks to Jo for having advised him
to  forgive Ruqaiya. But none to her then for accepting 10 days tafteesh time to find the real culprit after zinda jala dena?None for taking the cut and saving Jodha's head from being slayed! None at all for preventing him from committing serious miscarriage of justice? Kitne double standards Jalal?
  
 
How did a woman like Ruqaiya, supposed to be sharp enough to give Jalal political advice, embark upon such a risky exercise without an exit plan? Remember, when Mahaam asks her what she proposes to do as the months go by, she seemed to have given it no thought at all.

It is this that is the worst of all about this stupid track, which was clearly aimed at gilding Jodha's halo some more, and bringing her much closer to Jalal. Which it seems to have accomplished.

Jodha Jaap again! Make everyone else budhus and nuts scheme!
 
 

 

He wants to live his missed childhood with his child. No wonder he was desperate with a child not coming. Rajat was splendid.............just wanted to hug and console him. Why did Jodha not ? Need you ask? Because she is the long married Paridhi Sharma!

Oops! Forgot!


 

Isn't yakeen two-way. What about the yakeen that he gave her earlier that she was the one and only one, irreplaceable and most special. When he didn't sort it out with her, he shouldn't be surprised with his yakeen being shattered.

No, my dear, the two things are not  the same. Equations in a marriage do and can change, but that does not mean  that one spouse can practice such a cruel fraud on the other. There is such a things as honesty vis a vis a person you care for. I do not even know how much this Ruqaiya cares for Jalal, I still cannot forget the way she walked away without a backward glance when Jalal was weeping over Bairam Khan's death.

And where was he when she wept alone after the Jo-Jalal boatride that was planned by her? He was coaxing Jodha not to feel guilty! Aunty, I am not comparing the pain in the two situations, but the two of them have always taken each other for granted!



 May be Ruqaiya shattered his yakeen. But the meete din, meeti yaadein, bachpana.............it was him who destroyed all those. It was he who changed their mutual equation.
As I noted above, this sort of thing can happen, but that does not excuse fraud of the most painful kind. And no equation in a marriage is forever, least of all under these unequal circumstances in a medieval imperial marriage, where invariably it is the wife who has to  work at it. Ruqaiya is too smug and takes him completely for granted in the earlier stages. Now it is too late.

Jalal did bend to break point in the medieval imperial marriage with Jodha  too, to understand her and pacify her and as JBM says 'to heal her wounds' !


Even when I watched the Thursday episode, I didn't feel that he had heartily forgiven her. He tries to pretend to be normal, but is seething with anger beneath, but is careful not to spill it out as he had promised Jo. When he said 'kahin na kahin aap tanha mahsoos kar rahi thi', I didn't not feel a tinge of his feeling her loneliness. He was being a good student and followed his Guru, Jo's words to a T.  He neither understood Ruqaiya earlier before Jo came into his life (proof: the silent tears Smiley shed), nor during her jealousy days, nor now.............not even to the extent Jo did. Hence his continued dejection with her.

If he could understand and forgive Shivaani and Tej for causing such a public scandal by running away at the nth moment leaving him and  his brother at the altar for the sake of 'mohabbat', then it is strange that he cannot understand that Ruqaiya too behaves so due to her mohabbat for him.


But Sandhya, it is pointless to say that just as he forgave Shivani for her mohabbat, he should forgive Ruqaiya for having deliberately raised  false hopes in him, and then dashed them out of her mohabbat for him. No one reacts with impeccable fairness in  two  such cases, one of which is abstract (seeing that the really affected party,Mirza Hakim, is even readier to forgive Shivani) and the other which is intensely personal, that too on a very sensitive point for Jalal.

It was not just an abstract case aunty. Teakwood and Pudding made him the laughing stock of the country. All the kings including Maharana Pratap would have heard of it and laughed at him! And what about Teapot? Didn't he too try to cheat Jalal indirectly? He was forgiven so easily, just after a few hours in prison, all because he couldn't watch his beloved in tears. Mirza was just an excuse. And what about Shariffu - forgiven as his unborn child may one day question him 'meri galti kya thi?'


I found the reaction natural Aunty. Why would she be grateful to Jodha for saving her as Jodha IS the reason for her strained relationship with Jalal. And remember Dumbledore in the final Chapter of the Sorcerer's stone? He tells Harry  - your father did something that Snape couldn't get over - he saved his life - now after saving you, he can continue to hate your father's memories. And to know that Jalal forgave her following Jodha's instructions against his wishes, was the worst blow she could have got.  She deserves it.


Of course she does. There is no denying it!


To revert, she does not have to feel  grateful to Jodha. Gratitude is a corrosive sentiment that dissolves all but the strongest of relationships. But she should have the sense to keep her mouth shut, thank her lucky stars that Jodha was foolish enough to bail her out, continue with her fake air of sweetness towards Jodha, and see  how best to get back to terra firma with Jalal again. Instead, as she is yelling at Jodha, I am sure Jalal is going to pop up like a jack in the box, and Ruqaiya will go back 6 squares.

Jalal didn't pop up aunty. Only Jodha stood 'achambit' hppy 
 

This is what I hold against Ruqaiya,  her blockheadedness. I can admire a slick villain, I cannot tolerate  arrogant idiocy.

I can even tolerate arrogance, but not idiocy.





Which is a pity, for instead of an interesting triangle of husband-friend-beloved,, we are apparently  going to have a high-pitched negative character in the typical Balaji mould. Ruqaiya will probably attempt something even  worse in its unregenerate folly pretty soon, without or without Mahaam’s advice and assistance.

Naturally.it is Jodha Chaalisa that is the theme of the Serial. Ruqaiya will descend from bad to worse till she is cut off from Jalal completely. Well, so long as it is Jodha 2 who sticks around, I can live with it. In any case, I never liked Lavina as Ruqaiya; the transition from the fascinating, vulnerable Ruqaiya of Smiley  came to me as a great letdown. She and Paridhi at times tie for the Razzie award. 

 Sabaa
sh! Sariyana potti!    hppy

 


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Re: Jodha Akbar 262: Confusing emotions

Post by mandygi on 2014-06-17, 03:09

why is balaji not showing any of jalal's hunars? we want to know about akbar and not only jodha!..i m least interested in knwing her!

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Re: Jodha Akbar 262: Confusing emotions

Post by aashyagh on 2014-06-17, 07:40

sandhya wrote:
sashashyam wrote:

Ash, do see my detailed response to Sandhya above. You will find it interesting.
My dear  poppet is too exasperated with Jodha, but then, Sandhya, this is my Jodha 2, and Jodha 1 has never managed to get a foot in the door ever since her journey back to Agra. That is reason enough to rejoice, come confess that it is!
Shyamala/AuntyaashyaghSandhya you sound too annoyed, infact you don't like any suggestion of Jodha to Jalal, here I disagree with you, there was no harm in her going to Jalal and trying to put across her POV and why not, now she accepts him as her husband and she only thinks about his likes/dislikes, concerned about his feelings, and this is the Jodha most of us was yearning for, not the post Sujamal track or ghrina mode.  Infact when she told Jalal to forgive Ruq's, it was not a bhashan or a mahanta mode, she was secured and confident wife who was sure that, her husband's love for her will not be shared, she gets what is due for her and his love/affection for Ruq's is on different scale.  And why is Jalal questioned that he ignored Ruq, yes he gave less time to her, but he was in love and it happens with many or rather all the people who fall in love, you cannot find logic there or justice, and not even once, he has put down Ruq's down in front of Jodha even though Ruq's has insulted Jodha many times in front of Jalal, he has taken all her tantrums understanding her jealousness and insecurities, and like Shyamala said, men don't discuss such situations directly and for us being on the other side is easy for us mention that he should make her sit down and explain, and why couldn't Ruq question him direct, where is she in his life now instead of expecting him to come to her, even she can go to him and question him.    


Okay, okay, I confess, this is the Jodha of initial days, the jodha of Badal Kajiri track that we have always wanted, but the recent 'inki rehmokaram se ' did put me off.  That is why I am not upset with Jodha at all, (infact I have begun to re-like her) but only with the scripting that is all about Jodha Hymns. If she continues to be so, I am very much prepared to forget the Jodha 1 - the Jodha between episodes 81 and 240.

But Ash, didn't Jalal display the patience and understanding of a saint in affairs concerning Jodha. Hence the expectation that he understands the girl whom he calls his best friend, childhood friend.

Ruqs did ask him if his new friend will take her place in his life. But he only said that her place is irreplaceable. Supressing the truth is sometimes as hurting as an outright lie.
 So finally Sandhya is falling in love  hppy , I know, you have just started liking her, and hope cv's keep this balance in Jodha's character and I feel they will, after all it's about her support to her husband.  
Yes, Jalal displayed lot of patience related to Jodha, but he wasn't doing it with love, he didn't know what he felt for her, his passion, obsession for her made him do this.
And when Ruq's asked him, he assured her about her place, then if she was still insecured, she should gave confided in him.
And did you notice today how Jodha clearly and confidently tells Ruq's is Jalal's Friend?

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Re: Jodha Akbar 262: Confusing emotions

Post by sandhya on 2014-06-17, 09:08

Falling in love Ash? With Jo? My ears are not made of steel like Jalal's! hppy 


Ash, does assuring or saying alone mean everything?  Then Maham also has always assures and declares that she is most loyal and affectionate to Jalal and she is too at times. 

Jalal too assures Ruqs that she means most to him and nobody can take her place. But actually he sidelines her for Jo most of the time. Any woman can feel it.

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Re: Jodha Akbar 262: Confusing emotions

Post by aashyagh on 2014-06-17, 09:39

sandhya wrote:Falling in love Ash? With Jo? My ears are not made of steel like Jalal's! hppy 


Ash, does assuring or saying alone mean everything?  Then Maham also has always assures and declares that she is most loyal and affectionate to Jalal and she is too at times. 

Jalal too assures Ruqs that she means most to him and nobody can take her place. But actually he sidelines her for Jo most of the time. Any woman can feel it.

Sandhya, your love to Jodha was sarcastic, and my comment on that as well hppy 
He did not say she means most, he did say no one will take her place, like I said, when you are in love, you tend to spend more time with your love and that is a fact, you side line your friends, you want to talk/dream only about your love and he is no different, just because he is an Emperor doesn't make him aloof of love, and he hasn't ignored her for years, so being a friend, is it not her duty as well to understand? Why everytime Jalal has to understand/explain, he has understood her best to his capabilities and have tolerated all her tantrums and forgiven her mistakes.

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Re: Jodha Akbar 262: Confusing emotions

Post by sashashyam on 2014-06-17, 11:14

My dear Ash,  I am with you completely on this. Jalal has changed, but Ruqaiya will not change, or cannot change. This is life, and one has to adjust or walk away. She cannot walk away as Jodha did, poor Ruqaiya, as she has no mayka, plus she is a never say die type. Sara wants her to go away to Ghazni, but I do not  think Ruqaiya will agree. Shyamala aashyagh wrote:
sandhya wrote:Falling in love Ash? With Jo? My ears are not made of steel like Jalal's! hppy 


Ash, does assuring or saying alone mean everything?  Then Maham also has always assures and declares that she is most loyal and affectionate to Jalal and she is too at times. 

Jalal too assures Ruqs that she means most to him and nobody can take her place. But actually he sidelines her for Jo most of the time. Any woman can feel it.

Sandhya, your love to Jodha was sarcastic, and my comment on that as well hppy 
He did not say she means most, he did say no one will take her place, like I said, when you are in love, you tend to spend more time with your love and that is a fact, you side line your friends, you want to talk/dream only about your love and he is no different, just because he is an Emperor doesn't make him aloof of love, and he hasn't ignored her for years, so being a friend, is it not her duty as well to understand?  Why everytime Jalal has to understand/explain, he has understood her best to his capabilities and have tolerated all her tantrums and forgiven her mistakes.  

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Re: Jodha Akbar 262: Confusing emotions

Post by aashyagh on 2014-06-17, 12:26

Yes Shyamala, Jalal has changed and infact Jodha has changed too, I was applauding her confidence when she said that "aap unki mitra hain", no where she wanted to mention you are his wife, or any other term, she mentioned friendship word twice, she has no doubt that Jalal only loves her, why wasn't Jodha like this earlier?
Ruq's- it is too late for her to change, I know they say " Better late than never", but sometimes the late is almost close to never, it is of no use, there will be strains in her relationship due to her behaviour, people do need to change with time and circumstances, nothing is permanent

sashashyam wrote:
My dear Ash, I am with you completely on this. Jalal has changed, but Ruqaiya will not change, or cannot change. This is life, and one has to adjust or walk away. She cannot walk away as Jodha did, poor Ruqaiya, as she has no mayka, plus she is a never say die type. Sara wants her to go away to Ghazni, but I do not think Ruqaiya will agree. Shyamala aashyagh wrote:
sandhya wrote:Falling in love Ash? With Jo? My ears are not made of steel like Jalal's! hppy 


Ash, does assuring or saying alone mean everything?  Then Maham also has always assures and declares that she is most loyal and affectionate to Jalal and she is too at times. 

Jalal too assures Ruqs that she means most to him and nobody can take her place. But actually he sidelines her for Jo most of the time. Any woman can feel it.

Sandhya, your love to Jodha was sarcastic, and my comment on that as well hppy 
He did not say she means most, he did say no one will take her place, like I said, when you are in love, you tend to spend more time with your love and that is a fact, you side line your friends, you want to talk/dream only about your love and he is no different, just because he is an Emperor doesn't make him aloof of love, and he hasn't ignored her for years, so being a friend, is it not her duty as well to understand?  Why everytime Jalal has to understand/explain, he has understood her best to his capabilities and have tolerated all her tantrums and forgiven her mistakes.  

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Re: Jodha Akbar 262: Confusing emotions

Post by Greeshma014 on 2014-06-17, 16:41

Aunty, i was checking IF for some meaningful posts, which r very rarely happens nowadays..den i noticed dis comment by u...i liked it alot..i don't like to comment there..so i'm copying dat here, hope u don't mind..
"post by SHYAMALA AUNTY''
"

My dear, there is a French saying. Le coeur a ses raisons que la raison ne connait pas (the heart has its reasons, of which the mind has no knowledge; it is better in the French as "raison" means both  reason,  and logic or intelligence) . Ruqaiya cannot simply decide one fine day to fill the void in Jalal's heart;  he must be ready to accept it as well. He is not going to fall in love with his Gatti because she is in love with him (which I doubt).

 Yes, he values Jodha as a person, for her honesty, her integrity, and now because she too loves him,  far more than Ruqaiya. But in that kind of polygamous set up, every wife had her own standing, and the emperor had to cater to all of them. So Ruqaiya, especially if she had had a child, would have had pride of place even if Jalal loved only Jodha. He would have spent much more time with her and the baby: remember what he tells her just before she starts throwing up?

No, he has not drifted away from her because she is shallow.He was quite happy not so long ago, plotting with her against Jodha. Now, it is he who has changed, plus he has fallen in love. Even if Ruqaiya was a carbon copy of Salima, she would still stand no chance against Jodha.

But it is also true  that even now, if Ruqaiya  were to die suddenly,  he would be devastated, and Jodha would not be able to heal that loss. One relationship, no matter how deep, cannot replace all the past ones.

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Re: Jodha Akbar 262: Confusing emotions

Post by Greeshma014 on 2014-06-17, 16:49

@Aunty, i loved ur explanation aunty..jalal loves jodha..it has nothing to do with Ruk's behaviour..u explained it very well ..

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Re: Jodha Akbar 262: Confusing emotions

Post by sandhya on 2014-06-17, 17:40

aashyagh wrote:
sandhya wrote:Falling in love Ash? With Jo? My ears are not made of steel like Jalal's! hppy 


Ash, does assuring or saying alone mean everything?  Then Maham also has always assures and declares that she is most loyal and affectionate to Jalal and she is too at times. 

Jalal too assures Ruqs that she means most to him and nobody can take her place. But actually he sidelines her for Jo most of the time. Any woman can feel it.

Sandhya, your love to Jodha was sarcastic, and my comment on that as well hppy 
He did not say she means most, he did say no one will take her place, like I said, when you are in love, you tend to spend more time with your love and that is a fact, you side line your friends, you want to talk/dream only about your love and he is no different, just because he is an Emperor doesn't make him aloof of love, and he hasn't ignored her for years, so being a friend, is it not her duty as well to understand?  Why everytime Jalal has to understand/explain, he has understood her best to his capabilities and have tolerated all her tantrums and forgiven her mistakes.  
I do really love Jodha as long as she doesn't talk too much or lecture or gloat in her R pride, real and supposed, and others don't sing exaggerated hymns in her name..........................and she doesn't do much of these nowadays. Jodha2 is a real delight.

I don't blame Jalal at all for sidelining Ruqs. It is natural...the poor chap has just found his dil and his love.............it is a eureka phase for him.Jalal need not understand/explain because Ruqaiya deserves it. She doesn't. She is a spoilt nasty brat. But I expect this from Jalal as he is made of such standards and we have witnessed it in his extra special understanding of Jo, even before he knew he loved her. Had Jo really won him by her intelligence, love and understanding and patience/balance instead of his bending to break-point understanding and tolerance levels, there would be no expectations from him wrt Ruqaiya at all.

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Re: Jodha Akbar 262: Confusing emotions

Post by sashashyam on 2014-06-17, 17:55

Thank you, my dear Greeshma, and I am glad you  copied that excerpt from my explanation to young Neesha in the IF here. She is a tenacious young lady, and I was greatly relieved that she said finally that I had laid her doubts at rest!Shyamala AuntyGreeshma014 wrote:@Aunty, i loved ur explanation aunty..jalal loves jodha..it has nothing to do with Ruk's behaviour..u explained it very well ..

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Re: Jodha Akbar 262: Confusing emotions

Post by sashashyam on 2014-06-17, 18:01

My dearest friends,

Encouraged by Greeshma's copypasting exercise, I have decided to share with all of you my exchange of comments with Vinita on her IF thread about the episode that I had covered in my Equal Honours post. Do bear with me re: parts which have already appeared here, for  I could not edit them out with also editing out the coherence of Vinita's comments.

Shyamala/Aunty

My dear Vinita,

Your @blue offers a very fresh and plausible perspective on the puzzle of Hamida Banu Begum, or at least re:one part of her, her poor performance as Ruqaiya's foster mother, so to speak. 

Except that she is, as you yourself have pointed out , so lacklustre and retreating on almost all matters, that the reason might also be her general inability to take a tough and unrelenting stand when it came to curbing Ruqaiya's arrogance, her rudeness, her self-centredness. She was not the person the whip such a high spirited young filly into line after breaking her in.

To continue in racing parlance,  Ruqaiya would have taken the bit between her teeth and dumped Hamida at the first opportunity, especially since Jalal, once he found his feet,  let her have her way in all things and ignored his mother almost totally.

Yes, it is possible to forgive without forgetting; the wound  is cocooned and isolated in that blanket of  forgiveness, and can no longer hurt you. The reverse is not possible, I feel, unless the hurt was  a very minor one that fades from the memory without much conscious effort.

Shyamala
Originally posted by vinitaj27

Dear Shyamalaji n Neesha thanks for ur posts n comments,
I just have a few questions on this whole topic
Is it really possible to forgive and not forget or vice versa? I mean there have been a lot of times when we feel like we have forgiven someone but then suddenly out of the blue u end up remembering the deed they have done n u realise that at that moment the bitterness n pain is still there somewhere deep inside u. So is it really possible to forgive without forgetting n forgetting without forgiving?
 
Secondly I was just wondering whether Hamida Bano was always weighed down by the sacrifice made by ruqqaiyas father to save her son when it came to dealing with ruqqaiya and hence was lenient towards her. She in the show has been shown as a person who prefers standing on the lines n not get involved in anything too deeply. She is an advocate of jodha but overall she doesn't offer an opinion or take a stand against anything. It seems she is almost afraid to say much to her son or even be involved much in his life for the fear of rejection. It feels like she is happy with whatever little she has of her son now that she doesn't make much of an effort to be closer to him. I don't know if I am making sense but it just struck me as odd that a mother would not even put her hand on her sons head as a gesture of support when she found out that his dream of becoming a father is once again broken. 


[QUOTE=sashashyam]My dear Neesha,

Thank you so very much, my dear, for such a lavish compliment. I miss you in my new habitat, and I hope that from my next post, Confusing Emotions, re: the Friday episode,  about which I have PMed you, you will join me there as well. I would love to have you comment on my threads there.

Coming to your take on  this episode No, 261, I would agree with you in toto, except that re: Jalal, you are proceeding from an assumption that is not justified, to wit, that Jalal has forgiven Ruqaiya. He has done no such thing.

I am reproducing below the relevant extract about the Jalal-Ruqaiya scene from my above-mentioned post, since it might be of interest to  others here as well. It goes as follows.
But forgetting and forgiving are two very different things. It is more common to  forgive but not forget. Here, it is the other way around. Jalal wants to forget it all, for her sake and even more so for his own peace  of mind, though in fact he is very far from having reached this stage. He has NOT forgiven her at all.And in this scene, it   was clear beyond  the shadow of a doubt that he is still very hurt

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
As for Ruqaiya' monumental folly,  it was a cruelly insensitive thing to do, though Bakshi Banu's  and Mahaam's misdeeds were worse, and both could have got Jodha  killed for infidelity by a madly angry Jalal,and in the first case, even Hamida Banu does not have faith in Jodha. But what I could never understand, apart from the betrayal part ,  is this.

How did a woman like Ruqaiya, supposed to be sharp enough to give Jalal political advice, embark upon such a risky exercise without an exit plan? Remember, when Mahaam asks her what she proposes to do as the months go by, she seemed to have given it no thought at all.

It is this that is the worst of all about this stupid track, which was clearly aimed at gilding Jodha's halo some more, and bringing her much closer to Jalal. Which it seems to have accomplished.

Ruqaiya does feel  deeply guilty and ashamed of her kartoot, but only because she has been caught out (thanks to that highly artificial speculation by the senior Hakima Sahiba) and she is now afraid that she will be consigned to the outer darkness by Jalal, if not worse. It is only her equation with Jalal that matters to her, which is understandable. What is not understandable is how stupidly she handles this core relationship.

I feel exactly the same as you in your last para, and I have always said so. Except that in the old days, Jalal was only a bit less difficult and temperamental than Ruqaiya, though he always had an innate kindness for all those who are loyal to him and are dependent on him, a grace that Ruqaiya has always lacked. Plus, Jalal would not know how she behaves in the harem, nor would he, as most men would do,  care anything about that.

The real fault re: Ruqaiya's upbringing lies with Hamida Banu. She was a small girl when she came into Hamida's care, and she could have been shaped into a caring young woman, who behaved with the kind of dignity and benevolence one would expect of the chief queen. Hamida seems to have been a complete flop in the mothering department - witness the kind of products she turned out, first Ruqaiya and then Bakshi Banu!  

Given this, Jalal should,once he started getting so close to Jodha, have sat Ruqaiya down and explained to her, gently but firmly, that she would continue to be his dearest  friend and his Begum-e-Khaas, but he cared a lot for Jodha too and she would have to adjust to that and behave well with Jodha. He never even attempts that, taking shelter under his pat excuse that he cannot understand women. He is, like most men faced with such a situation, reluctant to get involved, that is all!

Next, he should not, knowing perfectly well that Ruqaiya is jealous of Jodha, have gone to town making such a fuss over her return. Ok, he is in love for the first time, so let that passs.

But again, he goes on  lauding her to the skies for her courage during the attack on the way to the orphanage, praise so OTT  that even Jodha feels awkward about it. Even among siblings, praising one child too much in front of the other always causes negative reactions.

Even earlier, the excessive fuss made over Jodha's return to Agra, plus the odd  shaadi ki saalgirah celebrations, all of them acted like tinder for  Ruqaiya's already short fuse. Till then, she keeps herself under control, and behaves very well during the preparations for Jodha's reception, but then the  strain gets to be too much, and she plunges into this insane fraud.

Well, this sort of thing would not have been uncommon in medieval royal households. In Maharana Pratap, Maharana Udai Singh's favourite queen, the gorgeous Dheerbaiji, plots and plots relentlessly to get rid of the heir to the throne, Kunwar Pratap, since she wants her own much younger son to succeed Maharana Udai Singh.

At least Ruqaiya has some clear codes and a basic sense of  honour; she will not, unlike Mahaam, ever stoop to murder, and she really cares for Jalal. She slaps Hoshiyaar for suggesting, during the BB track, that they should get rid of Jodha's (assumed ) baby, proclaiming that it would be Jalal's baby and that was what mattered to her. That is why I feel that with proper upbringing , her negative traits would have been  suppresssed and the positive ones enhanced. But she never  got that kind of upbringing.

Shyamala Aunty

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Re: Jodha Akbar 262: Confusing emotions

Post by Greeshma014 on 2014-06-17, 20:39

Jalal became 'AKBAR'..

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Re: Jodha Akbar 262: Confusing emotions

Post by shiningways2407 on 2014-06-17, 20:48

@all simply watch the
 epi ,It was fantabulous.
Jalal became Akbar,I simply
cried in joy.It was such a
heavenly n heart touching
moment.
Kudos to cvs,writers,directors,
RT for executing it so well.

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Re: Jodha Akbar 262: Confusing emotions

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