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Jodha Akbar 269: Todar Mal's triumph! JA 272:Tangled skeinsP5 JA 274:Depths of follyP10 JA 276:Pg 22

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Re: Jodha Akbar 269: Todar Mal's triumph! JA 272:Tangled skeinsP5 JA 274:Depths of follyP10 JA 276:Pg 22

Post by munnirony on 2014-06-30, 23:49

@aunty, im not arguing about right or wrong, but yes im sure if mirza hakim was in todermal's place his verdict would have been the same. the matter is not just about the R*pe matter is also about attempting to R*pe a mad girl who is not in her senses. i agree death penalty is too much & im also criticizing him for not investigating further im just saying punishing todermal is not wrong. besides the ulemas also said tht for these type of crimes death penalty is given, tht means its the law. i know todermal is evryone's fav & jodha's family is not liked by all but in tht case sujamal also risked his life to save jalal, then why cant we digest jalal leaving him. we r also biased aunty & thts also a big truth.

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Re: Jodha Akbar 269: Todar Mal's triumph! JA 272:Tangled skeinsP5 JA 274:Depths of follyP10 JA 276:Pg 22

Post by sashashyam on 2014-06-30, 23:50


I thought it was the nari sammaan diatribe that was supposed to gild her halo further?Why would she need to be redeemed from that?
Adiana, let us once and for all bury the TE. He is dead and gone, lady, he is dead and gone. Tonight, especially the precap, was the last nail in the TE's coffin. I HATED   and despised him more than I can say. I would have liked to have pushed him off that terrace or blown him up instead of Todar Mal.
Shyamala

adianasrAh... but then Shyamala, if Zee and Ek do not show Jalal in such depths how would then be able to raise Jodha in the eyes of the trp audience and redeem her after that diatribe????? After all it is to be another day for Jodha Begum to save the situation!!!!!

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Re: Jodha Akbar 269: Todar Mal's triumph! JA 272:Tangled skeinsP5 JA 274:Depths of follyP10 JA 276:Pg 22

Post by adianasr on 2014-06-30, 23:53

Shyamala, Had this show been by any one other than EK, I would have said that it is the darkest hour before dawn - but since this is an EK show I will take the fifth and watch the rubbish that is doled out as long as I am able to before I switch loyalties.

sashashyam wrote:

I thought it was the nari sammaan diatribe that was supposed to gild her halo further?Why would she need to be redeemed from that?
Adiana, let us once and for all bury the TE. He is dead and gone, lady, he is dead and gone. Tonight, especially the precap, was the last nail in the TE's coffin. I HATED   and despised him more than I can say. I would have liked to have pushed him off that terrace or blown him up instead of Todar Mal.
Shyamala

adianasrAh... but then Shyamala, if Zee and Ek do not show Jalal in such depths how would then be able to raise Jodha in the eyes of the trp audience and redeem her after that diatribe????? After all it is to be another day for Jodha Begum to save the situation!!!!!

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Re: Jodha Akbar 269: Todar Mal's triumph! JA 272:Tangled skeinsP5 JA 274:Depths of follyP10 JA 276:Pg 22

Post by sashashyam on 2014-07-01, 00:06

munnirony wrote:
No, Munni,I am not biased. I have spent all my working life analyzing  the facts of international politics without bias clouding my assessments, and  what I have written to you is nothing more than the bare facts.

What Bakshi Banu and Mahaam did  was far worse than this, and so why were they not executed, or Abul Mali or Sharifuddin for rebelling against the crown?
 
Did the law not prescribe the death sentence for treason? Why then were these  worthies let off? Why because they were family -not only Jodha's family but Jalal's family. How then are you sure that Mirza Hakim would have been executed for a similar offence? No way he would have been executed.
Todar Mal, who saved Jalal's life like Sujamal did, is not let off like Sujamal.What  sort of impartial justice is this?
 
And then Jalal weeps, not for Todar Mal, but  for himself! And he says he could do nothing about it!!
 
That was the pits. I cannot tell you , Munni, how badly he has let me  down. I cannot either get over it or forgive him. I hope he does not forgive himself, or his janasheen Jodha Begum (who cannot be wrong),  easily when the truth finally penetrates into what passes for his brains. She will have no difficulty forgiving herself, that is for sure.
Shyamala Aunty
@aunty, im not arguing about right or wrong, but yes im sure if mirza hakim was in todermal's place his verdict would have been the same. the matter is not just about the R*pe matter is also about attempting to R*pe a mad girl who is not in her senses. i agree death penalty is too much & im also criticizing him for not investigating further im just saying punishing todermal is not wrong. besides the ulemas also said tht for these type of crimes death penalty is given, tht means its the law. i know todermal is evryone's fav & jodha's family is not liked by all but in tht case sujamal also risked his life to save jalal, then why cant we digest jalal leaving him. we r also biased aunty & thts also a big truth.

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Re: Jodha Akbar 269: Todar Mal's triumph! JA 272:Tangled skeinsP5 JA 274:Depths of follyP10 JA 276:Pg 22

Post by munnirony on 2014-07-01, 00:07

in EK's show we dont have a choice. ultimately jodha begum has to be the savior. as jalal rightly said in the end its bcoz of ur dil this "jelly" jalal is on.

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Re: Jodha Akbar 269: Todar Mal's triumph! JA 272:Tangled skeinsP5 JA 274:Depths of follyP10 JA 276:Pg 22

Post by munnirony on 2014-07-01, 00:13

@aunty, i wasnt talking about u. i said "we" & it includes me as well. yes he could have executed sharif i agree but certainly not BB bcoz, jodha who was the main victim forgave her. if we talk about sujamal, he wasnt accused for R*pe. im again saying its jalal's fault tht he didnt investigated the matter, death penalty was also too much but certainly he is not at fault by punishing todermal.

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Re: Jodha Akbar 269: Todar Mal's triumph! JA 272:Tangled skeinsP5 JA 274:Depths of follyP10 JA 276:Pg 22

Post by sashashyam on 2014-07-01, 00:35


If the Shahenshah, the final judge, fails in his bounden duty to investigate the matter, then that itself is very wrong. How then can he be right in punishing Todar Mal?
He knows perfectly well that witnesses can lie and betray. Why then does he rush to judgment,  because it is his Jodha Begum who is the accuser? What more  of a criminal mistake does he have to make?
Well, Munni dear, I feel bad enough already about Jalal letting me down with such a thud, and I do not want to argue any more about this. Have it your way if that is what you want; I do not agree at all.
Shyamala Aunty

munnirony@aunty, i wasnt talking about u. i said "we" & it includes me as well. yes he could have executed sharif i agree but certainly not BB bcoz, jodha who was the main victim forgave her. if we talk about sujamal, he wasnt accused for R*pe. im again saying its jalal's fault tht he didnt investigated the matter, death penalty was also too much but certainly he is not at fault by punishing todermal.

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Re: Jodha Akbar 269: Todar Mal's triumph! JA 272:Tangled skeinsP5 JA 274:Depths of follyP10 JA 276:Pg 22

Post by munnirony on 2014-07-01, 00:42

@aunty, plz read my posts. didnt i said i criticize him for not taking time to investigate??? didnt i said death penalty is too much??? my only point is punishing todermal is not wrong thts it. why my comments r not read properly??

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Re: Jodha Akbar 269: Todar Mal's triumph! JA 272:Tangled skeinsP5 JA 274:Depths of follyP10 JA 276:Pg 22

Post by sashashyam on 2014-07-01, 01:10

Oh lord, Munni,why am I doing this again? You yourself are saying that Jalal has committed 2 cardinal mistakes. When he has not investigated the matter, how can he conclude that Todar Mal is guilty? When he cannot conclude this, how can it be right to punish him? It is as simple as that, and I am only citing you. This is it, Munni, no more please. Shyamala Auntymunnirony wrote:@aunty, plz read my posts. didnt i said i criticize him for not taking time to investigate??? didnt i said death penalty is too much??? my only point is punishing todermal is not wrong thts it. why my comments r not read properly??

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Re: Jodha Akbar 269: Todar Mal's triumph! JA 272:Tangled skeinsP5 JA 274:Depths of follyP10 JA 276:Pg 22

Post by munnirony on 2014-07-01, 01:14

well yes aunty no more bcoz my points will never be understood. so its better tht i stop.

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Re: Jodha Akbar 269: Todar Mal's triumph! JA 272:Tangled skeinsP5 JA 274:Depths of follyP10 JA 276:Pg 22

Post by aashyagh on 2014-07-01, 08:09

I have not watched the episode and reading update, I have no intentions of watching.
Jalal being an Emperor instead of cribbing that he is helpless, he should have decided not to punish until he doesn't investigate, but it is too much to expect.  If TM wanted to assault Shenu, he could have done it easily in his ashram, didn't Jalal feel like cross examining  her?  Expecting such sense from him for others is mere stupidity.  This man forgives Sujamal because he saved his life and is Jodha's brother and he does nothing for TM who saved his life as well as provided shelter for his wife and takes care of lot of helpless people.  
Jodha talks about women's rights, was she not in TM's ashram, where many helpless women were there, so what happened to her sensible thinking?  
I have no more hopes left for this show.

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Re: Jodha Akbar 269: Todar Mal's triumph! JA 272:Tangled skeinsP5 JA 274:Depths of follyP10 JA 276:Pg 22

Post by mishti on 2014-07-01, 08:53

Aunty...it's painful, it's unbelievably a let down coz we can't imagine bias or wrong judgement by Jalaluddin Mohammed Akbar...Why not, I say? ..of course he would have been wrong, flawed sometimes, some he could amend, some not...but his righteousness, good must have outnumbered his blunder and follies and not cost the empire....therefore Akbar-the great....
This is NR...still I believe he could do all this and yet be an Emperor.....it's just that his office is not being shown in great detail, but few sneak-peak that are shown, tells us that his office, jobs, etc...are running superbly...
I liked that Jodha was visibly shaken by Jalal's disappointments and his regret for finding a heart, which plainly translated, he regretted Jodha...and he said this straight to her...she was agitated at Toddy's wife (claps for the lady  long hug ), fearsome at putting off of the akhand jyot....but what affected her was her husband, the Emperor.

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Re: Jodha Akbar 269: Todar Mal's triumph! JA 272:Tangled skeinsP5 JA 274:Depths of follyP10 JA 276:Pg 22

Post by shobita on 2014-07-01, 11:10

Thanks for the post Aunty!

I felt yesterday's episode had some positives and quite a lot of negatives. While the story line of the protagonists as well as the acting of one of them (no prizes for guessing who) were a big let down, the supporting characters actually made the episode somewhat bearable.

I liked Mahachuchak yesterday. I was happy that Todaramal's wife gave a pithy-mouthful to Jodha.....I don't think she would have uttered 'shraap' - because she feels that her husband was dying a martyr. I think her telling Jodha "you would regret when u realise you have lead an innocent person to the gallows" was good enough. 

I somewhat agree with Adiana when she says this glorification of Jodha is to please the Karni Sena......I sometimes end up watching Maharana Pratap......they glorify Maharana Pratap at the cost of Jalal and that too with fictitious stories (not that Maharana Pratap needs any false stories to bring him glory).....and they do it without the 30sec disclaimer that it part of all JA episodes......they are not scared of any Sena.......but yeah....I feel there is that lingering fear for the makers of JA....But that definitely doesn't give them the license to show Jalal in this shameful light.....and that too for an impulsive, proud, thick-skinned Begum like Jodha who has absolutely lost her powers of discretion (well she had very little of them in the first place)....I so agree with you when you said Jalal was the biggest let down.......when he could investigate Jodha's pregnancy ark wala episode by himself, couldn't he do the same for Todarmal whom he counts among his 'chand aziz'?

But I did like Rajat's acting yesterday.......and was left wondering why Paridhi is flaring up her nostrils way too often (any answers???)

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Re: Jodha Akbar 269: Todar Mal's triumph! JA 272:Tangled skeinsP5 JA 274:Depths of follyP10 JA 276:Pg 22

Post by lashy on 2014-07-01, 11:48

sashashyam wrote:Jodha Akbar 274: The depths of folly

Her face was hard and devoid of even an iota of either sympathy or regret at such a harsh punishment. 
 Evil or Very Mad 
The amazing thing was that contrary to my expectations, Jalal too was absolutely sincere, and had no stratagem to save a man  who had just  a little while ago saved his life . He was willing to let him be blown up for, if one comes down to brass tacks, attempt at R*pe, not R*pe, and this when he is  not convinced of his guilt. This is exactly like the Tasleem track, when he had NO plan B, only worse, for he is ready to take the life of a man who has saved  his, just as Sujamal had. .
Exactly!

Sujamal, who had entered the harem and killed dozens of Mughal soldiers while escaping,  got off scot free because he had had the good luck  to save Jalal's life, while Todar Mal's saving the same life apparently counted for nothing.
 Bang 
Then Sharifuddin, who rebelled against Jalal is what was also a gunaah-e-azeem, and a far worse one, was merely imprisoned, as was Zakira for another,  terrible  gunaah-e-azeem, of trying  (as was believed) to assassinate the emperor.
Bakshi Banu and Mahaam  could both have got Jodha killed for supposed  infidelity, and all they got was ostracism in the first  case and even less in the second. It is all cockeyed, and utter nonsense. 

Sharifuddin was then released because his wife was pregnant. So it is all Todar Mal's wife's mistake, she should have had a nadaan, paak, nirdosh  balak on the way!

I had written that I would have liked her to dress Jodha down, and she did, but in far too lukewarm a manner. She should have given her a shraap.  Not that even a shraap would have disconcerted this Jodha.  Her face retained its expression of sulky righteouness and self satisfaction right thru that segment; it was a rigid, very poor performance. It needed Kanha and the bujhe diye  to give her at least a jolt.
I'm genuinely liking Jodha lesser these days...  Bang 

The only one who survived in this episode was Ruqaiya, who stood up for Todar Mal citing his services to the Mughal sultanate. I felt like giving her a standing ovation.
No.. she only stood up for TM because Jo was against him.. had it not been the case, she wouldn't have stood up for TM

Now my last lingering hope is that Todar Mal will quit Agra after Shehnaaz is exposed, and betake himself to Mathura, preferably after delivering a sharp alvida to Jodha:
Nari ka hi sammaan nahin hota hai, Jodha Begum, purush ka bhi sammaan hota hai. Aapne mere atmasammaan k0 asahaniya chot pahunchayi hai, aur ab main yahan ek kshan bhi nahin rukh sakta hoon. 

Jodha AND Jalal deserve nothing less for their ingratitude, their propensity to bend the rules to suit themselves, and their criminally faulty sense of judgment, plus his despicable catering to her  whims and fancies. Yeh joru ka ghulam to aadmi hi nahin hai, Shahenshah to door ki baat hai.
But aunty... of what I came across.. apparently Akbar has made a wrong judgement in court against Birbal based on some issue regarding prostitutes (where Birbal was apparently thus framed)... he was under a lot of pressure from a section in his court to eradicate the Hindu influences... now, I don't know what managed to save Birbal either.. so, looks like our glowing emperor has committed such grave follies in reality too.. 
As I've heard from what's been written in the namas... there have been lot of court intrigues in Akbar's court.. and yes, cover-ups have happened and not without his knowledge entirely... it is also no secret that Akbar has always remained partial to his blood relatives...so, I guess this discrepancy (except for the investigation) might not be too off the mark.. while the Jodha and NR angle is new... the rest???? I'm not so sure...


Today's precap was sickening in the degree of  despicable weakness sand pusillanimity shown by  Jalal.  The Shahenshah-e-Hind   sentences a loyal minister on charges that he himself does not believe,  because Jodha Begum kabhi galat thi hi nahin. And when he has been specifically told by the ulema that he has the final word regarding the sentence, he still pronounces the  death sentence.   He never even thinks of investigating the case himself.

He probably  wanted to  burnish his own credentials as an impartial judge at the expense off Todar Mal's life. Would he have sentenced Mirza Hakim to death on a similar charge? No.

Then he stands on the terrace feeling sorry for HIMSELF, and his aching dil,  that one of his azeez is going to be blown to bits on the morrow, and,get this, he can do NOTHING about it. Can anything be more disgusting?

And his beloved wife,the  one who upheld nari sammaan by railroading the man  who saved her husband's life to his own death, stands there with nothing to say. I wished that the storm had blown both of them off the battlements. They could then have gone to heaven (presumably) and left us  in peace.

Once the truth comes out, donon ko chullu bhar pani mein doob kar marna chahiye.

This is the pits. There is no hope for this serial any more. I am glad I did not watch the mahaepisode. Today's muck was as much as I could take.

As for Todar Mal's  benighted idiocy in forewarning Shehnaaz, in great detail, about  exactly how he planned to expose her to Jalal the next day, it was exactly like such scenes of the hero boasting to the villain in the bad Hindi films of the 1970s and 1980s. I could not believe it as I watched him blabbering out his plans for the morrow to her.
This idiocy is a disease that spreads to all heroes TV or cinema.. 
Shyamala/Aunty
The only person who possibly stood out was TM's wife.. and she couldn't have given a greater dressing down than she did to Jodha because of their status differences... Jodha and Jalal have not been dignified... but, TM's wife has been  hpee 

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Re: Jodha Akbar 269: Todar Mal's triumph! JA 272:Tangled skeinsP5 JA 274:Depths of follyP10 JA 276:Pg 22

Post by munnirony on 2014-07-01, 11:59

Well aunty,  srry for last night's encounter. I still stand by wht I said but I should have toned down. Nd guys whether we agree or not fact remains this show is about jodha. Even when jalal is right then also he will be wrong in the end so tht jodha can come nd rescue him. Nd jodha being wrong about TM is nothing but just a lollipop. Whenever she is shown wrong she has been glorified more than before in the next track. I also agree tht showing jalal dumb or helpless is to satisfy karni sena just like the show MP does by showing jalal cruel. Nd since this is a ekta show hero will be shown making bigger blunder than the heroine so tht heroine mahan theory can prevail even when the heroine is wrong.

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Re: Jodha Akbar 269: Todar Mal's triumph! JA 272:Tangled skeinsP5 JA 274:Depths of follyP10 JA 276:Pg 22

Post by soumyalaxmi on 2014-07-01, 13:08

Hi this is soumyalaxmi. iam a silent reader in this forum. but today am unable to restrain myself from reacting to the comments in this latest track. All are blaming jo n ja but I request them to put on their shoes n think about the situation. first Jo's POV: she didn't know about shenu's truth. she thinks tht she is mentally handicapped. If we come across any such person in tht situation like attempted r...e, then how r we going to react? do we not stand for them n support them? she also did the same. Ja also did the correct thing. As an emperor he has to be fair in his judgements to all. TM really failedto present his case properly where as shenu presented her case perfectly. she has got all the witnesses in correct places. but am really disappointed with TM, since he knows the gravity of the situation, he might've been a bit extra cautious in dealing with her. He has to update the Emperor. but he also acted impulsively. Now he is paying the price.
Ja's POV: He acted accordingly. This is a critical and sensitive issue. Its considered the most barbaric act of mankind in the society even now, then at that time in Islamic laws its such a heinous act tht the person has to be punished like that since for thefts, they were cutting the persons' hands. He gives the explanation to his mother on tht night in DEK, if he cannot protect a girl in his own palace, how can he protect the country? For his own investigation... its useless, he can't help it because the whole thing happened in his own palace n shenu has all the witnesses in the correct places. TM failed to erase his tracks. While judging people  Ja never considers his personal relations with them. he judges according to the witnesses. Even in tasleem's case, he was ready to divorce Ruqs to save the children from unwanted marriages. If he cannot protect an innocent, mentally challenged girl in his own palace, how can he rule the Both JO n JA didn't know tht. shen is normal. so they r correct in their place. We have seen some examples of these wrong punishments in the history. In south India we all know the famous king Srikrishna Deva rayalu n his minister Appaji. some people in the royal family conspired against appaji because he is also like a father figure to the king like BK to JA. They killed the only heir to the throne n blamed Appaji. The king punished him severely by taking off his eyes n imprisoned him for life. after tht the king came to know the truth, but its already late since Appaji lost his eyes. The king regretted his hasty judgement for the rest of his life.
When the truth comes in front of them, then what will be their plight? How r they going to digest the news ? both will be shattered. JA n JO r victims here after shenu's revelation they will suffer the most because she is his sister n she gave the utmost pain to them. all the members of his family gave pain to JO n it reflected on JA also. they both suffered immensely. I really don't know how r they going to survive of this latest escapade! I really hope tht it gives some idea about the inner turmoil of JA at tht sujamal MU n his behavior towards her to JO n it really makes her to accept him wholeheartedly since I feel she has some issues in tht regard.

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Re: Jodha Akbar 269: Todar Mal's triumph! JA 272:Tangled skeinsP5 JA 274:Depths of follyP10 JA 276:Pg 22

Post by sandhya on 2014-07-01, 13:38

Lashy, 
Akbar might have committed errors of judgement. But not such foolish follies with truth staring at your face like in Tasneem track or now. The Tasneem track has been discussed to death and wept upon by Jalal philes. Now he himself is not convinced of TodarMal's guilt. Then why not buy time  and investigate further?  If Todarmal is innocent and truthful then Shehnaaz can't be paagal. So why didn't Akbar try to expose Shehnaaz?  Trail her , spy her and catch her red handed? Why didn't he grant 10 days tafteesh time the way he did in zinda jala dena sentence?  As he didn't want to displease Jodha begum?

In Birbal's case Akbar would have certainly conducted investigation but proofs and pressure might have been against Birbal.  Here too had Jalal conducted an investigation and was yet unable to prove Todarmal's innocence and tafteesh time was over and he HAD to finally give his decision then this is acceptable but not now

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Re: Jodha Akbar 269: Todar Mal's triumph! JA 272:Tangled skeinsP5 JA 274:Depths of follyP10 JA 276:Pg 22

Post by munnirony on 2014-07-01, 14:05

Well I think best person to spy upon shehnaaz was SB. Lets be fair tht all 3 jalal jodha nd TM r equally at fault. Yes TM's follies also cant be avoided bcoz he committed the same mistake which jodha committed in the sujamal track. Jalal's fault not investigating further, jodha's fault not letting TM to speak nd not even thinking once tht if the poison was in the taj then any one of her bandis r responsible for sure nd TM's blunder was not taking anyone's help in this regard. When ur following a woman u cant be so careless. Prob is tht to prove jodha the ultimate savior jalal is destroyed to the hell.

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Re: Jodha Akbar 269: Todar Mal's triumph! JA 272:Tangled skeinsP5 JA 274:Depths of follyP10 JA 276:Pg 22

Post by sashashyam on 2014-07-01, 15:33

My dear  Soumyalakshmi,

You have  a beautiful name. I am glad that you have decided to quit being a silent reader. I hope you will keep it up.


As my own post on page 10 has apparently not convinced you, I must try a bit harder. Let me paste in here my response on the latest  thread of my dear young friend Divya. Her efforts were directed at  defending Jalal from my acid critiques, by saying that he cannot be more than a judge and he cannot find out anything useful even if he investigated the case himself, instead of rushing to such a harsh and immediate judgment. Here is my response to Divya,  as also an excellent take by another frined, sun29 in the IF, whose analysis is better than mine on page 10. Do see if these interest you, and more important, convince you at least to some extent.

The main point is, why such an instant judgment when Jalal himself is very doubtful about Shehnaaz's charges being true? And why a death sentence? Did he sentence Abul Mali and Sharifuddin to death for high treason when they rebelled against him? No, he only imprisoned them. The same for Zakira, accused of trying to assassinate the emperor. Then why such hasty capital punishment for Todar Mal?

That too when both Jalal and Jodha  should have learnt, from  a number of recent cases - the fake pregnancy case, the Sujamal case, the Benazir case, the list goes on - that both evidence and witnesses  can be fake. But then of  course they will learn nothing from the past.


And don't fret about  any  paroxysms of self-reproach from Jalal and Jodha when the  truth is revealed. Jalal will aplogise in the DEK and will be applauded for it, but there will be no such thing from Jodha. In fact she will very  soon convince herself that she was not at fault at all, as in the narnaal case where she nearly got Jalal killed by the tiger and never once apologised to him for his generosity in not uttering  a single word of  reproach to her. 



And  all her cheerleaders applauded her for producing that lifesaving lep for Jalal, and forgot that he nearly died because of her unthinking, do-gooding folly. It will be the same now.


She will, after getting that kick in the backside from Kanha's bujhte diye,  go out and unmask Shehnaaz, and all will be forgiven, plus she will be hailed by one and all as a heroine. I only hope Todar Mal's wife continues to give her a very cold shoulder.

Shyamala B.Cowsik

MY COMMENTS ON DIVYA'S COMMENTS ON MY COMMENTS ON HER MAIN POST!   

A very good attempt at salvaging our lead pair, Divya, but then you are a very clever young lady.  Only, I do not buy any of it.

Jalal is the emperor, the supreme authority with power of life and death over everyone. So he has to be all of it - investigator, jury and judge, for the buck stops with him. That degree of overall responsibility goes with the territory.


If he cannot cope with  it, he should quit and go and sit in an ashram with his beloved Jodha Begum. Watching him feel sorry for himself on the terrace brought  out all my worst instincts. I hate lachrymose men who weep for themselves, and then an emperor weeping over his own weakness is the limit.

Don't nourish any false hopes about Jalal activating any grey cells he has left. I had been, foolishly, of course, dead sure that the sentencing was a put on job between Jalal and Todar Mal. The precap taught me otherwise, This is not Adiana's TE. This is a weepy jellyfish, not the one with stings.

What if Todar Mal had been executed? Would you then just say that Jalal and Jodha should learn from their mistakes? Mistakes??

An emperor has to be able to assess character. Why does Jalal  not execute Jodha at once for infidelity in  the fake pregnancy case? Because he feels instinctively that she is innocent and then he sets out to get the evidence for it, and he does get it.

Why, pray, can he not get similar evidence in this case? He only has to suspend the case till he is satisfied, and then have someone discreet shadow Shehnaaz. In 10 days, he would have found out a lot. A baandi can eavesdrop easily on her self-congratulatory outbursts and her colloquiums with Mahaam. Her room can be searched. Shehnaaz is not all that clever, and she has to keep snooping around  all sorts of hoojre for that farmaan. Why can she not be caught on one of those expeditions and grilled? Don't say it is not possible, Divya, just to try and get Jalal off the hook. 

As for your take on the mahaepisode, what would be left if you left Jodha playing lawyer for the defence out of it, not to speak of the so-called bedroom scene? My point is that these days, if one wants to rejoice about an episode, one has to go about with a magnifying glass to find the plus points.

Anyhow, there was one point on which I did agree with you even here, and that was about the way Todar Mal conducted himself in the DEK. He was stoic and brave and noble.

Jalal looked hunted, incapable and cowardly; he literally ran away from the DEK and would not look Todar Mal in the face. The old Jalal was far more  involved  and concerned even  for  a baandi, Motibai, and this was when he has no soft corner for Jodha at all. Why does he do nothing like that now for this man to whom he owes so much?

And don't talk to me of relationships not being taken into account when Jalal dispenses justice, that is hogwash. He bends the rules all the time for his family and for Jodha. If anyone other than Abul Mali or Sharifuddin had done what they did, they would have been executed for high treason without a second thought. 

Jodha was rigid, vengeful and graceless; as  a true blue Rajvanshi, something she never fails to mention, why can  Jodha not understand the stoic courage of Todar Mal's  wife? That comment of hers to Moti was pathetic.

As for the rest, I  found sun29's take on the whole nearly perfect, much better than my own. As she has correctly pointed out, Jalal and Jodha have by now had more than enough experience with cooked up evidence and lying witnesses, and he should have been far less ready to believe such contrived circumstantial evidence.

To take only a most recent case, as I wrote on Ela's thread 2 days ago,  the case of Jodha-Sujamal and Todar Mal-Shehnaaz are similar in the sense of what was seen not being  what  actually happened. Of course Jodha demands that Jalal not misuderstand her on the basis of what was seen, but here she does exactly the same thing as Jalal did then with far greater justification. And it never occurs to her to look back at her own case and wonder, at least for an instant, whether the so-called evidence was not what it seemed to be at all.

But as sun29 says, neither Jalal nor Jodha will ever learn anything, from those earlier cases or from this one. Even if Todar Mal had been blown up. Jodha has such a cast iron armour of self-righteousness that she would soon have convinced herself that it was not her fault at all, and Jalal would have agreed, and all would have been hunky dory.

Except for Todar Mal's wife of course, and she would have been out of their sight in Mathura, so that too would have been ok for our imperial couple who would have got on with manufacturing Salim's predecessors in the angoori bagh, for there seems to be nowhere else that they are even reasonably close! Or perhaps the stork brought them in the time honoured fashion.   

Shyamala Aunty


Originally posted by sun29

divi...jalal and jodha are not novice teenagers anymore..the past one year has been a bucket full of harsh and hard core lessons for both of them and even after that if a person refuses to learn ...they are to be completely blamed and as Shyamala has put it..drown themself in chullu bhar paani 

let us see exactly what happened...both jalal and jodha saw shehnaaz battered hurt and she blamed TM...jodha took shehnaaz's side and jalal believed TM

so what happens next...jodha fought tooht and nail for something in which she believed...she had faith that she was right and she stood up and fought

now what does jalal do...brace urself..he drags himself and his aching heart to the tarazu and laments on the heart,feelings,moon,sun and the entire solar system and today some more...and icing on the cake he goes one step more and sentences the man to death within a day ..the one whom he had belief was innocent...

jodha is a lot of things...but the one thing that makes you admire her even if you want to whack her is her determination and strength...the same we saw in benazir track the point at which jala was furious at her...even then she did not move an inch from what she set out to do...

if jalal had to praise any hunar ..it was this..and this is what he should have learnt from her...stand for what you believe...stand strong even if a storm comes...do not waver...

TM is the man who saved his life...does even that not hold??

what Jalal should have done?

after his talk with HB the next day in DEK walks in a determined Emperor...he takes his seat and the accused and the victim are summoned...he takes opinion from the maulvis and then he speaks

"i have heard both the sides of this case and the issue is grave ,the sentence of which is nothing less than death...every circumstantial evidence speaks against TM...and based on evidence it is proved shenaaz is speaking the truth...but...i have learnt from my experience that everything that is seen is not the truth and everything that is heard is not the fact...hence i will be handling this case till my doubts are cleared...untill then TM will be imprisoned and will await my final verdict exactly seven days after today...till then this case is adjourned ..."

without waiiting to see or hear any reaction ..he gets up and walks out of the DEK issuing atgah khan to meet him in private...

and what jodha should have done

when she decided to advocate shehnaaz ..she should have walked over to TM and with utmost respect folded her hands and said...that she is ever thankful for everything he has done for them and her lifelong gratitude shall remain with him for saving ehr husband;s life...today it is her misfortune that she has to take a stand where he is on the other side...the case has been put forth in DEK and she shall put forward shehnaaz voice and her accusation based on the evidence provided...she apologizes if she crosses her maryada with him and then with calm and composure put forward all her points 

jodha believing shenu is not unexpected or wrong..in her place if i was there i would have done the same..even today when a woman points a finger at the man for man handling her ..99% believe the woman and only 1% believe that man and that too only his family...this is the first and second thought...it always is the last thought that just maybe the man is innocent and even then how many of us have the courage to voice it out without any evidence and how many will believe that the woman is lying ,she shamed herself in public to take revenge??? and what jodha feels for shenu is not trust or faith but sympathy not only coz she is awoman but she is a mentally challenged woman with the emotional growth of a 5 yr old...this is how jodha knows her and this is how she treats her...so when she sees her abused her maternal instincts tend to rise and then you become emotionally blind to anything other than your child alone and this obsession to protect her at whatever cost...the first and second thought ..i had just hoped that her last thought would be that the man who gave her shelter and respect and many other woman in his ashram ,saved her husband's life could be innocent...

why do you need a bhujtha hua diya to tell you what is right and wrong..God gave man a conscious for that...this is where she majorly disappointed me ...and as for her manners in the court...i never had any hopes on that front from episode one...EK and her team had made a mockery of rajputana aan baan and shaan from day one so ..DEK ninja attack was no major shocker for me...humility ,mildness and conducting oneself with class never feature on the list of any EK heroine be it 16th or 21st century...rajputana women were and are the epitome of grace and royal princesses are all that and more..their true hunar...so no expectation on that front from a EK show...

 the other major thing ,jodha was accused and on the verge of being killed by jalal in mc track..there evidence was stacked against her ...hence she knows that it can be manipulated ,hence he knows that it can be manipulated

in benazir track inspite of knowing she is a vishkanya all evidnece supported her innocence...once again both learnt that evidences can be manipulated

in MA track she provided witnesses ,in ruqaiyya FP she threatened the hakim..hence they both know witness can be manipulated

so did they learn anything???sadly no...and even after this will they learn??no

and yes why jalal can never have a plan B..coz then that would take away the chance of showing jodha's heroism...

i am all for naaari shakti and support to each other..but i vehemently oppose the demeaning of a man to uphold any naari power...naari shakti for me was when todarmal's wife stood rock solid for her husband whom she has faith in like a rock...that was the rajputana wife in action ...

after giving him the title of Akbar .within a week you show him in such a weak state with no sense of action...this is nothing but their arrogance that they can get away with anything as long as numbers pour in...EK and her team should be ashamed of the mockery they have made of an Emperor and his queen ...

btw where was SB with her wisdom when both jodha and jala needed it the most and what is the use of discussing the pros and cons of the case over tea if you do not have the guts to stand up and fight the injustice...ruqaiyya did that in mc track but now i have no hopes from her as well...hence it makes no difference what she thinks of this if she cannot act on it...so the scene made no sense to me

and coming to todarmal jee...he is finally suffering from Agraism...a deadly disorder that renders one into an utter fool capable of being responsible for your own folly

he suspects shehnaaz..very good

then he stalks her ...very good

then he enusres that every tom dick harry and their eve see him following a woman ...very very bad

then he confronts the suspect and pours out in detail the itinerary for the next day ...subhan allah 

and then he gets trapped and punished and all he can whine is jalal's life is in danger while waiting for the top to udhao him...masha allah 

seriously toddy...how does all this lead to saving jalal and capturing shehnaaz...getting urself killed is going to help whom?? 

soumyalakshmiHi this is soumyalaxmi. iam a silent reader in this forum. but today am unable to restrain myself from reacting to the comments in this latest track. All are blaming jo n ja but I request them to put on their shoes n think about the situation. first Jo's POV: she didn't know about shenu's truth. she thinks tht she is mentally handicapped. If we come across any such person in tht situation like attempted r...e, then how r we going to react? do we not stand for them n support them? she also did the same. Ja also did the correct thing. As an emperor he has to be fair in his judgements to all. TM really failedto present his case properly where as shenu presented her case perfectly. she has got all the witnesses in correct places. but am really disappointed with TM, since he knows the gravity of the situation, he might've been a bit extra cautious in dealing with her. He has to update the Emperor. but he also acted impulsively. Now he is paying the price.
Ja's POV: He acted accordingly. This is a critical and sensitive issue. Its considered the most barbaric act of mankind in the society even now, then at that time in Islamic laws its such a heinous act tht the person has to be punished like that since for thefts, they were cutting the persons' hands. He gives the explanation to his mother on tht night in DEK, if he cannot protect a girl in his own palace, how can he protect the country? For his own investigation... its useless, he can't help it because the whole thing happened in his own palace n shenu has all the witnesses in the correct places. TM failed to erase his tracks. While judging people  Ja never considers his personal relations with them. he judges according to the witnesses. Even in tasleem's case, he was ready to divorce Ruqs to save the children from unwanted marriages. If he cannot protect an innocent, mentally challenged girl in his own palace, how can he rule the Both JO n JA didn't know tht. shen is normal. so they r correct in their place. We have seen some examples of these wrong punishments in the history. In south India we all know the famous king Srikrishna Deva rayalu n his minister Appaji. some people in the royal family conspired against appaji because he is also like a father figure to the king like BK to JA. They killed the only heir to the throne n blamed Appaji. The king punished him severely by taking off his eyes n imprisoned him for life. after tht the king came to know the truth, but its already late since Appaji lost his eyes. The king regretted his hasty judgement for the rest of his life.
When the truth comes in front of them, then what will be their plight? How r they going to digest the news ? both will be shattered. JA n JO r victims here after shenu's revelation they will suffer the most because she is his sister n she gave the utmost pain to them. all the members of his family gave pain to JO n it reflected on JA also. they both suffered immensely. I really don't know how r they going to survive of this latest escapade! I really hope tht it gives some idea about the inner turmoil of JA at tht sujamal MU n his behavior towards her to JO n it really makes her to accept him wholeheartedly since I feel she has some issues in tht regard.


Last edited by sashashyam on 2014-07-01, 15:42; edited 2 times in total

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Re: Jodha Akbar 269: Todar Mal's triumph! JA 272:Tangled skeinsP5 JA 274:Depths of follyP10 JA 276:Pg 22

Post by sashashyam on 2014-07-01, 15:38

That is sweet of you, my dear Munni, except that there was nothing for you to be sorry about. You argued vigorously, that is all, and wo koyi apradh nahin hai, to borrow apni Jodha's pet line! As for the rest, I agree in toto. Do see my response above to Soumyalakshmi.Shyamala Auntymunnirony wrote:Well aunty,  srry for last night's encounter. I still stand by wht I said but I should have toned down. Nd guys whether we agree or not fact remains this show is about jodha. Even when jalal is right then also he will be wrong in the end so tht jodha can come nd rescue him. Nd jodha being wrong about TM is nothing but just a lollipop. Whenever she is shown wrong she has been glorified more than before in the next track. I also agree tht showing jalal dumb or helpless is to satisfy karni sena just like the show MP does by showing jalal cruel. Nd since this is a ekta show hero will be shown making bigger blunder than the heroine so tht heroine mahan theory can prevail even when the heroine is wrong.

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Re: Jodha Akbar 269: Todar Mal's triumph! JA 272:Tangled skeinsP5 JA 274:Depths of follyP10 JA 276:Pg 22

Post by sashashyam on 2014-07-01, 15:50


It is good to have you here, Lashykanna.
I agree with all your comments, and I am devoutly glad that unlike some  I have read in the IF, where I went after weeks, you are not trying to whitewash both Jodha and Jalal. 


As for Akbar's weaknesses, I  am sure they are true, but all the more reason for him, in this case of a man who had saved his life twice, to exert himself and try and get at the truth, for he suspects that what he was shown was NOT the truth. It is his abdication of his responsibility that gets my goat, plus his sniffling on the battlements.

What if Todar Mal had been executed and the truth had come out later? Would Jalal have punished himself for his folly?
Do take  a  look at my response above to Soumyalakshmi; it will interest you.
Shyamala Periamma.



lashy
sashashyam wrote:Jodha Akbar 274: The depths of folly

Her face was hard and devoid of even an iota of either sympathy or regret at such a harsh punishment. 
 Evil or Very Mad 
The amazing thing was that contrary to my expectations, Jalal too was absolutely sincere, and had no stratagem to save a man  who had just  a little while ago saved his life . He was willing to let him be blown up for, if one comes down to brass tacks, attempt at R*pe, not R*pe, and this when he is  not convinced of his guilt. This is exactly like the Tasleem track, when he had NO plan B, only worse, for he is ready to take the life of a man who has saved  his, just as Sujamal had. .
Exactly!

Sujamal, who had entered the harem and killed dozens of Mughal soldiers while escaping,  got off scot free because he had had the good luck  to save Jalal's life, while Todar Mal's saving the same life apparently counted for nothing.
 Bang 
Then Sharifuddin, who rebelled against Jalal is what was also a gunaah-e-azeem, and a far worse one, was merely imprisoned, as was Zakira for another,  terrible  gunaah-e-azeem, of trying  (as was believed) to assassinate the emperor.
Bakshi Banu and Mahaam  could both have got Jodha killed for supposed  infidelity, and all they got was ostracism in the first  case and even less in the second. It is all cockeyed, and utter nonsense. 

Sharifuddin was then released because his wife was pregnant. So it is all Todar Mal's wife's mistake, she should have had a nadaan, paak, nirdosh  balak on the way!

I had written that I would have liked her to dress Jodha down, and she did, but in far too lukewarm a manner. She should have given her a shraap.  Not that even a shraap would have disconcerted this Jodha.  Her face retained its expression of sulky righteouness and self satisfaction right thru that segment; it was a rigid, very poor performance. It needed Kanha and the bujhe diye  to give her at least a jolt.
I'm genuinely liking Jodha lesser these days...  Bang 

The only one who survived in this episode was Ruqaiya, who stood up for Todar Mal citing his services to the Mughal sultanate. I felt like giving her a standing ovation.
No.. she only stood up for TM because Jo was against him.. had it not been the case, she wouldn't have stood up for TM

Now my last lingering hope is that Todar Mal will quit Agra after Shehnaaz is exposed, and betake himself to Mathura, preferably after delivering a sharp alvida to Jodha:
Nari ka hi sammaan nahin hota hai, Jodha Begum, purush ka bhi sammaan hota hai. Aapne mere atmasammaan k0 asahaniya chot pahunchayi hai, aur ab main yahan ek kshan bhi nahin rukh sakta hoon. 

Jodha AND Jalal deserve nothing less for their ingratitude, their propensity to bend the rules to suit themselves, and their criminally faulty sense of judgment, plus his despicable catering to her  whims and fancies. Yeh joru ka ghulam to aadmi hi nahin hai, Shahenshah to door ki baat hai.
But aunty... of what I came across.. apparently Akbar has made a wrong judgement in court against Birbal based on some issue regarding prostitutes (where Birbal was apparently thus framed)... he was under a lot of pressure from a section in his court to eradicate the Hindu influences... now, I don't know what managed to save Birbal either.. so, looks like our glowing emperor has committed such grave follies in reality too.. 
As I've heard from what's been written in the namas... there have been lot of court intrigues in Akbar's court.. and yes, cover-ups have happened and not without his knowledge entirely... it is also no secret that Akbar has always remained partial to his blood relatives...so, I guess this discrepancy (except for the investigation) might not be too off the mark.. while the Jodha and NR angle is new... the rest???? I'm not so sure...


Today's precap was sickening in the degree of  despicable weakness sand pusillanimity shown by  Jalal.  The Shahenshah-e-Hind   sentences a loyal minister on charges that he himself does not believe,  because Jodha Begum kabhi galat thi hi nahin. And when he has been specifically told by the ulema that he has the final word regarding the sentence, he still pronounces the  death sentence.   He never even thinks of investigating the case himself.

He probably  wanted to  burnish his own credentials as an impartial judge at the expense off Todar Mal's life. Would he have sentenced Mirza Hakim to death on a similar charge? No.

Then he stands on the terrace feeling sorry for HIMSELF, and his aching dil,  that one of his azeez is going to be blown to bits on the morrow, and,get this, he can do NOTHING about it. Can anything be more disgusting?

And his beloved wife,the  one who upheld nari sammaan by railroading the man  who saved her husband's life to his own death, stands there with nothing to say. I wished that the storm had blown both of them off the battlements. They could then have gone to heaven (presumably) and left us  in peace.

Once the truth comes out, donon ko chullu bhar pani mein doob kar marna chahiye.

This is the pits. There is no hope for this serial any more. I am glad I did not watch the mahaepisode. Today's muck was as much as I could take.

As for Todar Mal's  benighted idiocy in forewarning Shehnaaz, in great detail, about  exactly how he planned to expose her to Jalal the next day, it was exactly like such scenes of the hero boasting to the villain in the bad Hindi films of the 1970s and 1980s. I could not believe it as I watched him blabbering out his plans for the morrow to her.
This idiocy is a disease that spreads to all heroes TV or cinema.. 
Shyamala/Aunty
The only person who possibly stood out was TM's wife.. and she couldn't have given a greater dressing down than she did to Jodha because of their status differences... Jodha and Jalal have not been dignified... but, TM's wife has been  hpee 

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Re: Jodha Akbar 269: Todar Mal's triumph! JA 272:Tangled skeinsP5 JA 274:Depths of follyP10 JA 276:Pg 22

Post by soumyalaxmi on 2014-07-01, 18:48

Thank you very much Shyamala Aunty for ur complement reg. my name.  I agree with ur explanation of Ja taking time to pass on the judgement. He can take his own time nobody can question him. Both of them showed haste. Actually after watching ME where Ja tells TM tht he himself is going to investigate n look in to the matter n decide, I really expected him to do something like he did in tasleem's case, Jo's false preg case.... But yesterday when I listened to his talk with HB, I understood tht its not going to happen. I can't find fault his punishment. That is the punishment for such a crime in any century in any court. Even TM also knows that it seems.
     As far as Ruqs is concerned, she is a lost cause. I can't digest the things she did in her fake preg issue... whatever she did is really unforgivable. As far as her supporting TM is concerned, she just want to oppose JO. that's it.  If at all she's really concerned about TM, she would've come forward with her own investigation n prove him innocent. Atleast she'd have helped JA in taking the decision. we've to appreciate JO for her courage to stand for the cause which she believes is just. In tasleem's case, when JA is in turmoil reg. his divorce with Ruqs, she gave him the idea of gaining public sympathy. I really don't understand the mindset of HB,SB,RUQ etc.... they r just sitting and discussing the things like some kitty-party type. They certainly have the responsibility to advice him in these matters.
        I really don't understand the CVs why they r making mockery of these characters. My only advice to them : If u r making an alfa male of an emperor into an ice cream, pls. make it butterscotch not vanilla[ since b.c. is a bit nutty n less sugary when compared to vanilla].

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Re: Jodha Akbar 269: Todar Mal's triumph! JA 272:Tangled skeinsP5 JA 274:Depths of follyP10 JA 276:Pg 22

Post by adianasr on 2014-07-01, 20:29

Ah it was such pleasure to hear Shenu baby say this to Jodha - kam bolti aur logon ko parakhti toh tumhara aaj yeh haal nahin hota.

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Re: Jodha Akbar 269: Todar Mal's triumph! JA 272:Tangled skeinsP5 JA 274:Depths of follyP10 JA 276:Pg 22

Post by shobita on 2014-07-01, 22:03

adianasr wrote: Ah it was such pleasure to hear Shenu baby say this to Jodha - kam bolti aur logon ko parakhti toh tumhara aaj yeh haal nahin hota.
 Clap

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Re: Jodha Akbar 269: Todar Mal's triumph! JA 272:Tangled skeinsP5 JA 274:Depths of follyP10 JA 276:Pg 22

Post by sandhya on 2014-07-01, 22:34

For those who still wish to defend Jalal yesterday, a line from Mahabharat- "jinhe aagya dene ka adhikaar hota hai, unhe agyaan rehne ka adhikaar nahin hota."  Jalal's folly in ordering a sentence that he himself is not convinced about is an insult to the throne of justice he sits on. 

His faults are blown up as he is the king and he cannot afford to make mistakes esp while wielding the sceptre.  I remember a Vikram Vetal story in which Vetal tells a story of a chain of misunderstandings that led to the execution of an innocent man by the king. Vetal asks Vikramaditya who is  responsible for that man's death to which he answers 'Certainly the king' though others too had a lion's share in the confusion and treachery.

This Jalal is no Akbar.

And Jodha, lesser said the better. Like Adi I loved Shehnaaz words today asking Jodha to speak less and think more. Not that this Jodha ever learns.

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