Latest topics

Jodha Akbar 318: Imperial escapism

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Jodha Akbar 318: Imperial escapism

Post by sashashyam on 2014-08-31, 17:38

Folks,
In the interests of accuracy and comprehensiveness, I should have added hysteria and self-pity,  but that would have made it too long for a title, so I desisted.
Now, I saw from Divya's thread of yesterday that well over half her readers had apparently equipped themselves with an abundant supply of tissues hpee for Jalal's 6:57 minute peroration (cut to just under 5 minutes in the retelecasts after the 11 pm one, thus minus most of its rhetorical force), and seemed ready to cry with him over his Devdas take on his life.  
On and on and on he went, repeating each point at least thrice,  Nobody loves me for myself, is takht ki wajah se ... I am all alone, is takht ki wajah se.. my apne have turned against me, is takht ki wajah se.. ...   I do not want to be alone any more.. I do not want any  more takleef....
Because Rajat is a very handsome young man, who shares with his costar the ability to weep copiously without looking ridiculous, and because he  is a fantastic actor who has superb voice control - his  tone thickened  as the level of misery went up, the voice rose and fell, but always with that undercurrent of extreme emotional stress -  it all sounded very moving.

One did not think of what he was saying or  of whether it made any sense at all for an emperor to wallow in such self pity. One thought only that here was this poor, unhappy, tormented young  man who is at the end of  his tether . One has  to do something for him. One must hug  him and soothe  him and make him well again. The younger lot can amplify on this action plan as per their  wishes and hopes! hpee hpee hpee
But I have analysed his speech  word for word, and here are my conclusions. I shall simply let him speak for himself, adding only minimal comments. You are all of course free to disagree with me, but please do give my take serious consideration.
Imperial escapism:  First of all, let me dispose of the  idea that Jalal is not  running away from his responsibilities to his awaam,  and that he has nowhere said  that he was abandoning the throne  and leaving it  to another. Here are his own words.
Humne faisla kar liya hai, Jodha Begum, ki hum is takht ko khatam kar denge.Ab na hi yeh takht rahega na hi hamare sar par sultanat ka taj . Badshahat chhod denge hum,  Jodha Begum. ( so much for the argument that he is talking only of removing the corrupting power of the absolute power that comes with the takht).  
And again later, Humne faisla kar liya hai ki ne humein yeh takht chahiye nay yeh taj chahiye.
With this  I rest my case on the "it is all an emotional  outburst; he never meant to  abandon his charge" argument. He clearly did mean to do precisely that.
Nor is this the first time  he has done this. He did it before, for a different reason, during the butparasti  crisis. In fact  Jalal seems to regard  the throne and the empire as something that is his possession, to give up or give away as he pleases, one day because he needs to keep his promise to Jodha,  and another day because he is miserable that no one loves him for himself.
As for the argument  that nowhere  is  he saying he will give the takht up  to another, why,  he does not have to give it up for anyone else. The minute he quits, he will be murdered, for a deposed emperor cannot be allowed to survive as a perennial threat to  his successor.

Next, there will be a bloody civil war,with untold sufferings for his subjects,  as I had described at length in my post Jodha Akbar 100b: The demands of rajadharma (http://www.india-forums.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=3801478&PID=95362899&#p95362899)

There was no evidence then, and there is none now, that these vital considerations even crossed Jalal's  mind.  It was the same when he was unwilling to  go to war with his Nigar Apa, and had to be jumpstarted by Ruqaiya and to a lesser extent  by Jodha, despite the terrible fate that would befall his riyaya  under a Mahachuchak-Abul Mali combo.
This  repeated withdrawal syndrome in Jalal has been,  for me at least, the most disappointing and disturbing thing  in a character whom I, in all else, adore.
He is a monarch, and  it is his DUTY, not his choice, to care for  his people,  and that should always be his sole priority. Kingship is both duty and responsibility,  which  is what our ancients  have always taught us. It is a lonely, treacherous calling, and a king cannot, just because someone close to him has betrayed him,   quit  midway,  and carry on like a crybaby:  No one loves me... Aw... I am alone.. Aw... I do not want to suffer any more...Awww... 
The reason why: Now for what makes Jalal want to abandon  his takht, his taj, his badshahat.
As he puts it himself, Kyonki apnon ki baddua lekar, apnon ki nafrat sehkar, apnon ke khoon se hum badshahat nahin kar sakte hain..  And who, according  to him,are these apne  who have been turned against him by this shaitaani takht?
-Adham Khan, whom he says he loved as much an he did Mirza Hakim and Bakshi Banu, not very reassuring examples, but let that pass.  Jis ki har gustakhi maaf ki, and yet he wants to murder Jalal. What can you say about this except that Jalal's ability to judge others  is seriously defective? And does he think about how  this  har gustakhi ki maafi  might have contributed to making Adham worse and worse? No. For it is all is takht ki wajah se. It is as if Adham's claiming the throne, despite being a baandi ka beta,  is also because Jalal was the Shahenshah. If he had not been the Shahenshah, his argument goes, Adham would have  loved him . And this despite Jalal knowing, at first hand in Malwa, what an unregenerate and brutal thug Adham is and has always been.
-Abul Mali, one of the worst cutthroats around, and Sharifuddin,one the slimiest weasels around, both of which should be evident at first sight to anyone. Jalal is apparently convinced that but for his takht,  both would have loved him. This too defies all commonsense. Of course if Jalal had been a peasant farmer, neither would have rebelled against him, but they would surely have encroached on his fields and stolen his cattle and his crop!
-Mahachuchak,  whom Jalal, for no reason but legal, sees as his mother, and from whom he apparently expects that she should love him, and if she wants to murder him instead , wo bhi is takht ki wajah se.I wonder when he last encountered this Ammijaan of his. If it was recently, Jalal needs to have his head examined.
- His Khan Baba, who, he laments , was his ustad,  jinhon ne  humein sab kuch sikhaya, jinhon ne humein yeh takht saunpa, wo bhi hamare khilaf ho gaye,  of course is takht ki wajah se. This is a bit difficult to understand, but let us try. Bairam Khan did not rebel against Jalal  because he wanted the takht, but because, like an exasperated teacher, he felt that Jalal was inexperienced and foolish and he was ruining all the very considerable work that  he had done to  build up the Mughal empire. Of course if Jalal had not been the Shahenshah, Bairam Khan would not have had anything to get exasperated about, but then he would not have been interested in Jalal at all!
-Mahaam Anga, whom  Jalal has, in a shift that marks his emotional stress, started calling Badiammi once again, jinhein humne Khuda se badkar maante the (a capital folly in any one, worse  in an emperor),  jahan humne hamare doodh ki karz chukane ki har koshish ki (it is  unending, this  doodh ka karz!) , tajjub ho raha hai ki unhon ne hamari aulad ko baddua de di.  Why? Of course sirf is takht ki wajah se.   
How? If he had not executed Adham, but jailed him for life, Mahaam would have been  content, and would have sung hosannas to Jalal.
Moreover, to listen to Jalal, it is as it he  had not even heard the venom that Mahaam had spewed out, especially against her bete noire, Jodha Begum,  both after the Sujamal affair and at the end of the Atifa track. Or perhaps he has listened and understood as well, but is in a state of denial about   what that meant about the kind of person  Mahaam Anga really is, a truth that he does not want to face. But  this is not how a leader of men should be.
The curious thing is that if he had found out, during the Ruqaiya miscarriage affair,that Mahaam  was really guilty, he would have killed her on the spot, and no one, not even Adham, would have been shocked. But then this is not the same Jalal, and the khauf-e-Jalal  is now a thing of the past. Whence the waning of  the fear element in his enemies as well, with worsening problems for  the Shahenshah.   
-And finally, the most visceral loss of all, that of Atgah Khan.After his Khan Baba and his Badiammi, ab humse hamare Atgah Saheb ko cheena. But how, unless you argue that Adham  killed Atgah to get Jalal's takht,  and so that murder is the fault of the takht?  
Why does  Jalal not see  that Atgah died solely because of Jalal's own disastrous error of judgment, when he disregarded Todar Mal's and Atgah's warnings that Adham should not be left free to do whatever  he  liked? If you let a venomous snake go free  and it  bites someone, the fault is more yours than the snake's.
This galti  , I had assumed, would  be something that will haunt Jalal for the rest of his life. For the gravity of a fault, or a mistake, lies very largely in the gravity of its consequences. But I am not sure of this any more. If there had been one sentence  in all  of those 6:57 minutes where he lamented his mistake, I would have been satisfied, but there is none. Instead, Jalal rants on and on about the takht and its malefic powers.
The Achilles heel: In the end, it all seems to come down to this. For Jalal,  his Achilles heel seems to be an obsessive need to be loved by those close to him, which,  in a medieval king, as  in any MNC CEO today, would be  a major weakness.  Listen to him as he rages on and on about the manhoosiyat  of the shaitaani takht.
Is takht ne humse hamare apnon ko cheena, jinse humse mohabbat ki, unhe nigal gaya.. Rishton mein zeher ghol diya..Hamare apne ya to mar gaye, ya iski wajah se hum se door ho gaye  (but if, regardless of the fact that Jalal loved them, these apne of his could be corrupted by the desire for the takht to the extent of wanting to murder him, how does he still see them as his apne?  And still bemoans the loss of  his relationship with them? It is plain nuts
And what is it with his Bar bar, tumhari wajah se, humare haath humare apnon ke khoon se rang jaate hain?  Except for Adham, whose khoon  is Jalal talking about? Not Abul Mali, who was never sentenced to death, and not Sharifuddin, who was only jailed before he got a full pardon courtesy Jodha Begum. Not BairamKhan and not Mahaam Anga.  Who then?
Isne humse Khuda ki har neemat ko cheen liya ( what loss, may I ask? He is healthy,  he is a great warrior, he has discovered a dil and love, and is loved in return, he  has a loving mother, caring begums,  and a big empire, which is thriving. What more does he want?)
Isne humse hamare sapnon to cheen liya.. hamara sab kuch cheen liya  (What sapne  is he talking about, the  ones that have been corrupted by the takht?)
Sabko lagta hai ki yeh hamari taaqat hai, par yeh hamari zindagi ki sabse badi baddua hai ( This is near blasphemy.  Does Jalal  not value the chance that God has granted  him, by  giving him the powers of this very takht,  to better the lives of millions of his subjects? )
Isne humein akela kar diya.. humari zindagi ka har ek sahara humse cheen liya ( What on earth is he talking about ? Does he not value all those he has left,  who love him and are loyal to him? Jodha Begum,  his Ammijaan,  Ruqaiya and his other begums, Todar Mal and Mansingh, Munim Khan and, right now, Mirza Hakim as well? And as for being akela,  that is the lot of any leader. It is always lonely at the top. The Jalal who said precisely this to Jodha in Amer after the Hawai incident seems to have now forgotten what he knew then)
Lack of perspective: It is this complete lack of a sense of perspective, and of realism, not to speak of misplaced  priorities,   that is downright scary  in a man who holds the fate of millions in his hands.
Jalal does not seem to value what he has; instead he laments about what he thinks he has lost,  the  loyalty and love  which, in most of the cases he cites, never really existed. He is well rid of these traitors who have been exposed now,  and should count his blessings, but no, he must cling to his supposed apne,  and insist, irrationally,  that he has lost them isi takht ki wajah se.
He seems to lack  a sound  judgment of men, witness how so many befool him for years, fattening on his largesse while secretly plotting his assassination or his downfall. And the worst of  it  is that when their guilt is revealed, he does not blame them. He blames the takht,  ie the fact that God made him the Shahenshah, seeing this as a mistake that should be set  right!
If every medieval king  who was betrayed by  his near and dear ones, which was more the norm than the exception, were to behave like this, God save  his subjects!
Plus, at least in this episode,  the Shahenshah seems to be thinking only of himself and his emotional needs, which too is not what one expects of a great ruler. Does he think he is the first emperor to whom all this  happened? No.  Then again, much of it happened because of his own ill-judged leniency towards  those he assumes to be his apne. Does he realise that? To judge from his long rant, no, he does not. He is busy blaming the takht for  the consequences of his own misplaced softness.
A superb Rajat: None  of the above, which concerns Jalal the character, takes away anything from Rajat's bravura take on this tormented emperor. Every nuance was in place,  every emotion just right, neither  too much nor too little. As Jalal raged and stormed at the takht  and set it on fire (what fabric was that which caught fire so easily and blazed away so merrily? It was as if it had been doused in naptha!) , part of me was so exasperated that I wanted  to clout him. But the other part was lost in admiration at the way in which Rajat brought this Jalal alive on the screen.
Jodha: A tower of strength: I never thought the day would come when I would pan Jalal and praise Jodha, but lo and behold,that day has arrived! Jodha on Friday more than made up for what she had failed to do the day before, when a bloodied Jalal arrived in her hoojra.  
She was almost perfect in the way she handled him.
 She  sees that Jalal's raving  about the corrupting power of the takht is not   sui generis. It has been triggered by the shock of the baddua  that Mahaam  had given their unborn children. So she first stoutly dismisses the curse as of no account.  Kucch nahin hoga, na humein, na aapko, na hamari  santaan ko. I was very pleased to see that she does not cave in to  any entirely understandable fears that she might have felt, but puts up a brave face and seeks to infuse him  witht the same, stout-hearted courage.
She also realises that it was the fact that the Badiammi he had loved  and respected all his life who had done this that had cut Jalal to the quick.  So she tries to convince him that Mahaam could never curse him or his children, that  her outburst was merely a maa ka vilaap.  Jodha  might not believe it herself, but she knows that  it is vital to make Jalal believe it, so she tries hard.  
Another day, during the Atifa track, she had tried to  awaken him to his responsibilities to his people,  to the duties of an emperor that must always take precedence over his personal emotions and needs. This time,  she sees that he is too distraught  and emotionally ravaged for such rational arguments to work. And it is for the same reason that she does not  seek to counter his lament that he is akela by mentioning all those others who love him and are loyal to him.
What he needs, she grasps instincitively, is a very strong dose of emotional support, and she gives him a megashot. Her eyes lit up with caring and concern and  love, she assures him that no matter what happens, no matter who is or is not with him,  she will always be there for him.  Hum donon ka sambandh is singhasan ki wajah se nahin hai.. hum har pal aapke saath  hain, Shahenshah, chahe yeh singhasan rahe na rahe..Hum aapse prem karte hain Shahenshah, aapse! Na  is takht se, na iski shakti se, aur na hi singhasan se. .. Aap kabhi akele nahin hain, Shahenshah, Jodha aapke saath thi, hai, aur sada rahegi..
Jalal may be dazed and worn out, but he takes in all that she is saying. His face reacts to her words, and when she assures his that she loves him,  and him alone, not the man on the throne, he reaches up to  cradle her cheek in his palm. And when she asserts that Jodha will always be with him,  his face lights up visibly.
Finally, when she cradles him in her arms like a mother with a tired child -and there is always something of  a mother in a  loving wife -  he relaxes at long last. As she appeals to her Kanha to give him the strength to cope with Mahaam's bitter curse, his eyes are closed and he is at rest.
Jodha has managed to ride out the storm and  bring Jalal out of his personal hell, at least for now.
And in her later confrontation with Mahaam,   during a visit which was perhaps a miscalculation on her part, Jodha does  not back off from Mahaam's  vicious taunts. She faces them down and, in the end, counters them with  a ferociously confident assertion that she would  give the Mughal sultanate its heir, and that the Mughal parcham   would wave forever.  Attagirl!!
The baddua: The  whole of the first part of the Friday episode was made abominable by Mahaam's crude, vile ranting. As for the curse itself, everything that  Lashy, Donjas and others  have said to belittle its import and its impact  is true. But it is also true that the bulk of the viewing public is going to see the future developments, and even the wording of the curse,  which reaches out as far as Salim's well known  rebelliousness,  as  the victory of evil over good. It might be happening all the time, but surely there was no need to underline that here, was there?
Mahaam: By episode end, she had begun to look  positively demented.  I was taken aback by her demanding from Jodha why she had not done anything to help Adham.
As for her earlier legalistic attacks on Jalal for not having  had Adham tried,  I was surprised that neither Jalal nor anyone else thought fit to  mention to her, either earlier, when Jalal meets her,  or now, that Adham had actually tried to kill the Shahenshah,  a gunaah-e-azeem  that needed no additional proof. 
Questions of the day: 1) Why do Hamida, Jodha and all the rest stand there looking on as Mahaam is mourning over Adham's dead body? It was unseemly, and looked like the drawing room group in a regular TV serial.
2) Why does Jalal not have Mahaam removed as soon as she stands up and starts her  accusations?.  He waits till the baddua is well and truly over before he tells the guards to take her away.This too is exactly like the standard TV soap scenes, where the good guys stand around like lamp posts till the bad guys have finished with their abuse and accusations.
3) What is it with the over  a day old bloodstains on Mahaam's clothes? Dried blood darkens with time, but these stains are as bright red as ever, and their continuity, or lack of it, rivals the blood trails on Jalal's face the day before! hpee
 
Shyamala B.Cowsik

sashashyam
Glittering Gold
Glittering Gold

Posts : 855
Join date : 2013-08-01

Back to top Go down

Re: Jodha Akbar 318: Imperial escapism

Post by munnirony on 2014-08-31, 21:23

@aunty, i agree on sum points & i dont agree on sum. but honestly we can have several interpretations of the takt scene, we may or may not agree with each other, but at the end of the day tht scene was simply to show the latest tagline," jodha bani jalal ki taqat" & to show how jodha becomes the ultimate support system of jalal. HB has no time to come to his son, she can only talk about it. so if a son has a mom like her, god save tht son. evrything will be forgiven & forgotten tomorrow & honestly as per precap things r once again will be harem related. evrything will be related to jodha & her greatness only. so 2 tracks of strong jalal was to make rajat & his fans happy & we all know things will be same as before.

munnirony
Shining Silver
Shining Silver

Posts : 361
Join date : 2014-04-17

Back to top Go down

Re: Jodha Akbar 318: Imperial escapism

Post by mandygi on 2014-09-01, 04:15

shyamala all i can hope for at the moment is wait for the rest of the epis after watching a strong jalal its hard to digest or see him break down, i will wait and watch how the next week goes!

mandygi
Bronzie
Bronzie

Posts : 288
Join date : 2014-05-01

Back to top Go down

Re: Jodha Akbar 318: Imperial escapism

Post by mishti on 2014-09-01, 12:48

Hello, Aunty 
Again, a fabulous post.
Aunty, agree word to word in this post for Jalal-ud-din Mohammed Akbar-the Shehanshaah; but that is what he was lamenting on Friday, that is what he was crying for, that look at me, I'm also a Jalal-a man with basic emotional needs, normal human flaws.
Those 6:57 min were of just Jalal-a boy man(?). That was the man talking and not an Emperor, then. He'd stripped himself of every title, every designation, every responsibility, every burden in that moment and was sitting/standing in front the Takht. 
The Takht was also him, Jalal- the Shehanshaah, so in a way he was angry on himself, accusing and questioning himself too.
In that moment, Jalal, the  man was accusing Jalal, the Emperor, for his imperial duties and responsibilities, he'd overlooked or ignored the man, so, where the Emperor had everything and everyone at his disposal coz of the power, from friend to foes, the man has nothing and no one for himself and because of his own self.
As Divya, says, you can take away the throne from Jalal, but how could you take away the Emperor in him from Jalal...so the Takht was, but the extended persona of Jalal-ud-din Mohammed Akbar him self...he was addressing himself.
Regarding "apne"...that is how he, Jalal, sees them...
HB...his mother, from whose love he was deprived, more because he should be protected as an  heir apparent than only being her son..."Takht" relevant here too
MA...all his lonely, and as Donjas said, Nomadic childhood...he'd thought her of as a selfless mother, who loved the "child" and respected him as Shehanshaah...he was in awe of her because he was not her blood, in fact for him she ignored her own blood...until now, when he came to know about  MA's true colours...from Sujamal track (he'd at first even put sword on Atgah's neck), to Atifa, to this curse...her layers of false, ugly face slowly unpeeled before him...for him, his whole childhood, which till now he would console himself for having selfless MA's love, appeared a mirage, that never was. He's not a saint to detach, and thus, it hurt...:Takht" relevant here too.
BK...his teacher, his guide, his father figure (in absence of his father), who put Jalal on throne and thus, respected him as Shehanshaah (at least Jalal thought, that when it came to the designation BK respected him because that is what BK taught Jalal, that an Emperor commands respect from ALL). He disrespected the Emperor by over turning Shehanshaah's order of grant of mercy to someone, who'd in past saved Emperor's father...this disrespect was not only for current Emperor, who was BK's shagird, but also of Humayun, BK's Jahan panah...then he revolted when Emperor showed him his iron fist...BK had said, "Jalal yeh bhool gaya hai ki use baadshahat humne di hai", clearly indicating that if i can make him, I can break him too...voice over in the first episode itself, and later Abdul's self talk too, indicated that BK was de facto ruler and treated Jalal as a puppet..."Takht" relevant...
Ruqaiya...Jalal knows her auhda obsession...still she is his best childhood friend
Salima..."Shehanshaah" married her to give protection...respects her, but then Salima never tried to reach out to the man in him, who is flawed and child like...she also respects him.
Atgah..."hum humare Jalal ko bhi jante hain aur humare Shehanshaah ko bhi", this one line from him says it all...but he died because of Shehanshaah, Adham had said to him before killing, that he was the major obstacle between him and Mughal throne..."Takht relevant"
Adham, Bakshi, Abul mali, Cheapu..I mean Shareef-ud-din, MC...he was talking about them as close family relative, who would not try to kill in other wise normal family, and therefore, the man..but the Shehanshaah..."Takht relevant".
Regarding..."humare haath, humare apno ke khoon se rangein hue hain"...well it was figurative for all those who died saving him or attacking him...Atgah and Adham in recent past..."Takht relevant"
We also should admit and accept that in that moment, Jalal WAS WEAK...he's mentally strong, but the death of Atgah, the punishment meted to Adham, some where even shrieking away of Jodha (though am not too sure about this, because i feel he understood her freaking after seeing him soaked in blood)  and lastly the outburst and curse of MA...all of this in few hours, and sometimes a man can take as much...he was exhausted, out of wits and hollow.
In that moment he was an emotional wreck.
If you listen, Jodha, first disappointingly said, "Sighaasan jalana Mughal sultanate ke liye bahot bada APAMAAN hai" (it implied all you've said here in detail)...but she immediately gauged that this person here was Jalal the man, her husband who was standing in front of her and she addressed solely to HIM...No, Takht involved or relevant here.
Ah!!! how beautifully she cocooned him, caressed him and soothed his burning soul...Jodha sada apne Shehanshaah ke saath rahegi 
If you've a doubt that whether Jalal could've acted on his distraught state words or not...NO...look at him when Jodha nestled him..you yourself had said, "he reaches up to  cradle her cheek in his palm. And when she asserts that Jodha will always be with him,  his face lights up visibly."...
But also HE NODS IN ACCEPTANCE AND AFFIRMATION TO HER
That is what an Ardhangini is...or better in marriage, when one half falters, the other half comes forward to  support and balance such that nothing wrong happens.
Regarding the "curse", my issue is the "Historical" tag attached with the show, things that had already  happened in past and done and dealt with...and therefore, I felt it was insensitive on part of CVs to include such thing from an evil like MA, for not so well informed viewers and also sadly, but true...negativity is picked up faster.
As for performances...am tired of saying that RT is brilliant...but on Friday PS also shone in her part.


*Copying from my IF's post response.

mishti
Newbie
Newbie

Posts : 62
Join date : 2014-04-22

Back to top Go down

Re: Jodha Akbar 318: Imperial escapism

Post by mishti on 2014-09-01, 20:41

As much as I was and am OK with Friday's Jalal...Come Monday and  Jalal...arghhh!!! Man..I seriously wanted to beat him up...Aunty, Jalal all your's for hauling him up over the coals
I should've remembered Jalal's own words, "jab aadmi nashe mein hota hai, toh woh aksar sach bolta hai"... Bang Bang Bang Bang

mishti
Newbie
Newbie

Posts : 62
Join date : 2014-04-22

Back to top Go down

Re: Jodha Akbar 318: Imperial escapism

Post by munnirony on 2014-09-01, 20:57

aunty, i take my words back. i whole heardly accept my defeat. after the last track & increase in TRPs i thought tht maybe things will improve. but things r back to pavilion. again weak jalal, again to prove jodha great jalal is degraded & again ruku's stupid plans r back. again its proved tht this show is only about jodha the great & she was given perfect dialogues today. infact, she said the same thing which u had said, wht a coincidence.

munnirony
Shining Silver
Shining Silver

Posts : 361
Join date : 2014-04-17

Back to top Go down

Re: Jodha Akbar 318: Imperial escapism

Post by smile.sara on 2014-09-02, 11:03

kia hua shreya and mishti...what hapened.... after such a strong jalal ...again he didnt get any praise ?????

smile.sara
Newbie
Newbie

Posts : 69
Join date : 2013-11-19

Back to top Go down

Re: Jodha Akbar 318: Imperial escapism

Post by mishti on 2014-09-02, 11:29

Sara....back to square one, after glimpse of TE Evil or Very Mad

mishti
Newbie
Newbie

Posts : 62
Join date : 2014-04-22

Back to top Go down

Re: Jodha Akbar 318: Imperial escapism

Post by sashashyam on 2014-09-02, 12:13


Munni my dear, don't fret. We have survived worse things, as during the mirchi war track,  and at least here he was not hanging by his wrists and having boiling water poured over his head.

I could not understand this Jalal since Friday, as I set out at such length in this post, and come Monday, he simply confirmed my analysis. It was even worse than Friday,  for now he  does not even have the excuse of being sozzled. And  he does not seem to care  a hoot about Atgah's sacrifice and what he died for. He is wallowing in his own self-pity and as Jodha said, turning his back on his self-evident duty.

Not that I am happy about being right for once!

As for Jodha, I think I have penetrated her thought processes! Her lines last night were quite good, except that she looked and sounded like a  football  coach trying to ginger up a defeatist centre forward rather than  like a  loving wife with a deadbeat husband! She opens her eyes too wide, and the  whites show all around the iris, which looks scary!

Shyamala Aunty




munnironyaunty, i take my words back. i whole heardly accept my defeat. after the last track & increase in TRPs i thought tht maybe things will improve. but things r back to pavilion. again weak jalal, again to prove jodha great jalal is degraded & again ruku's stupid plans r back. again its proved tht this show is only about jodha the great & she was given perfect dialogues today. infact, she said the same thing which u had said, wht a coincidence.

sashashyam
Glittering Gold
Glittering Gold

Posts : 855
Join date : 2013-08-01

Back to top Go down

Re: Jodha Akbar 318: Imperial escapism

Post by sashashyam on 2014-09-02, 12:17

I am beginning to feel my age, my  little one, and hauling such a big chap over the coals again and again is wearying work. But I do wish he had not been so uncaring of Atgah's huge sacrifice and of what that stood for. He was even worse on Monday than on Friday - so selfish and self-centred, so full of self-pity, and this without even the  excuse of being drunk.

For once, I was not at all happy to be proved right, and I do not even feel up to saying "I told you so!" to you kids.

Shyamala Aunty

mishtiAs much as I was and am OK with Friday's Jalal...Come Monday and  Jalal...arghhh!!! Man..I seriously wanted to beat him up...Aunty, Jalal all your's for hauling him up over the coals
I should've remembered Jalal's own words, "jab aadmi nashe mein hota hai, toh woh aksar sach bolta hai"... Bang Bang Bang Bang

sashashyam
Glittering Gold
Glittering Gold

Posts : 855
Join date : 2013-08-01

Back to top Go down

Re: Jodha Akbar 318: Imperial escapism

Post by sashashyam on 2014-09-02, 12:20


MY RESPONSE OF  YESTERDAY TO MISHTI. A TAD OUTDATED, BUT AS THE MISERABLE SCRIPT IS CONTINUING, THIS  MIGHT STILL BE OF INTEREST

My little Mishti,

Thank you so  much; I am glad you enjoyed this one.

As for you, what an absolutely beautiful take on my long dissection of Jalal!  Excellent, my dear, and it only goes to  show, as I had written to you last night on my Dhwani thread, what you can do when you set your mind to it. The separate and self-reinforcing links to the takht read like a well researched essay.

But the main problem for me  is this: Jalal cannot separate  himself from the Shahenshah. It is all very well to talk of the leader in him as separate from the takht, but that is nonsense. Without the power of the takht,  he would be no leader. In fact he would be no more than another  adventurer living by his shamsheer.

Again, he cannot become a simple, audhaless citizen any more, free of all these bloody goings on. He is the Shahenshah by the will of Allah, which is why he is called the Zille-Elahi. He cannot now even think of backtracking and abandoning  his responsibilities to his citizens,  who should always be his first priority,  because he feels he is not loved and is in fact betrayed repeatedly by those close to him. For him to even consider doing this is condemnable and irresponsible . This is one fact that no amount of sophistry about his childhood traumas can fudge.

You can argue all you like,  and you have done it with great eloquence, but going by this screenplay, Jalal has made it a habit - 3 times at last count- to think of quitting his job for one reason or the other, without showing any concern for the fate of his awaam.

First, it was the zubaan given to Jodha that she would not have to convert to Islam. Now, Lord Krishna says in the Mahabharata that no vachan  that goes against the public good should be maintained at that cost. But that is precisely what Jalal was planning to do during the butparasti crisis. He was making idiotic and pointless suggestions,  like nominating Rahim as his successor, when he should have known perfectly well that the minute he stepped down, not only he but Rahim too would be murdered. And he was not shown having a single thought about or the slightest concern for his unfortunate subjects.

Then he was willing to let himself be defeated and his empire taken over by Nigar apa and her gang. Again, he had no thought to spare for the fate of his awaam. 

Now he is weeping over Adham and Mahaam and talking of quitting again. I am convinced that he had every intention of quitting. As PadBear has noted, he  says  Hum faisla kar chuke hain, not once but twice. Given his track record in this matter, how, Mishti, and why should one believe that he did not mean what he said? And again, not  a word about his awaam.

You have carefully avoided this point, Mishti, but the fact is that there was not a word either, in all that long tirade against the takht,  regretting his own folly and misjudgment in handling Adham Khan after the Atifa track. ?Why is this? It is because Jalal does not want to take responsibility for anything that has gone wrong with him. It is far simpler to blame the takht  for everything,

Even otherwise, it was an unseemly and depressing spectacle to see the emperor babbling that he is akela and he does not want any more takleef. Anyone listening to him would have concluded that if he cracked so easily under emotional pressure, he was unfit to rule anyway.

A ruler, Mishti, is not like you or me. The same rules do not apply to him, nor does he have the same liberties an ordinary citizen has. He is meant to rule  and he can show no weakness, nor can he quit. Jalal does both, again and again and again.

There is so much written about his traumatic childhood. Why,  lots of children in that era would have had far worse childhoods than Jalal's, and lots of them still do. You only have to read Dickens to understand what life was  like for orphans and poor kids in 19th century England. Compared to them, Jalal, with BK and Mahaam to protect and guide him, had it  easy.  But those poor kids did not and do not all sit around mourning their past. Jalal has had so many compensations, why does he not value those?

Nor do I buy this eternal emotional dependence on Mahaam line.  He dumped her after the Sujamal exposure,and then he already had a very good idea what she was really like, and that was reinforced a hundred fold after the Atifa track. if he still pines for her supposed love and caring, he needs, as I had noted, to have his head examined!

I am quite sure that the historical Akbar would never have been as weak  and clueless and hysterical as Jalal was on Friday. But since  I am stuck with this one, that is hardly going to help!

Shyamala Aunty

mishtiHello, Aunty 
Again, a fabulous post.
Aunty, agree word to word in this post for Jalal-ud-din Mohammed Akbar-the Shehanshaah; but that is what he was lamenting on Friday, that is what he was crying for, that look at me, I'm also a Jalal-a man with basic emotional needs, normal human flaws.
Those 6:57 min were of just Jalal-a boy man(?). That was the man talking and not an Emperor, then. He'd stripped himself of every title, every designation, every responsibility, every burden in that moment and was sitting/standing in front the Takht. 
The Takht was also him, Jalal- the Shehanshaah, so in a way he was angry on himself, accusing and questioning himself too.
In that moment, Jalal, the  man was accusing Jalal, the Emperor, for his imperial duties and responsibilities, he'd overlooked or ignored the man, so, where the Emperor had everything and everyone at his disposal coz of the power, from friend to foes, the man has nothing and no one for himself and because of his own self.
As Divya, says, you can take away the throne from Jalal, but how could you take away the Emperor in him from Jalal...so the Takht was, but the extended persona of Jalal-ud-din Mohammed Akbar him self...he was addressing himself.
Regarding "apne"...that is how he, Jalal, sees them...
HB...his mother, from whose love he was deprived, more because he should be protected as an  heir apparent than only being her son..."Takht" relevant here too
MA...all his lonely, and as Donjas said, Nomadic childhood...he'd thought her of as a selfless mother, who loved the "child" and respected him as Shehanshaah...he was in awe of her because he was not her blood, in fact for him she ignored her own blood...until now, when he came to know about  MA's true colours...from Sujamal track (he'd at first even put sword on Atgah's neck), to Atifa, to this curse...her layers of false, ugly face slowly unpeeled before him...for him, his whole childhood, which till now he would console himself for having selfless MA's love, appeared a mirage, that never was. He's not a saint to detach, and thus, it hurt...:Takht" relevant here too.
BK...his teacher, his guide, his father figure (in absence of his father), who put Jalal on throne and thus, respected him as Shehanshaah (at least Jalal thought, that when it came to the designation BK respected him because that is what BK taught Jalal, that an Emperor commands respect from ALL). He disrespected the Emperor by over turning Shehanshaah's order of grant of mercy to someone, who'd in past saved Emperor's father...this disrespect was not only for current Emperor, who was BK's shagird, but also of Humayun, BK's Jahan panah...then he revolted when Emperor showed him his iron fist...BK had said, "Jalal yeh bhool gaya hai ki use baadshahat humne di hai", clearly indicating that if i can make him, I can break him too...voice over in the first episode itself, and later Abdul's self talk too, indicated that BK was de facto ruler and treated Jalal as a puppet..."Takht" relevant...
Ruqaiya...Jalal knows her auhda obsession...still she is his best childhood friend
Salima..."Shehanshaah" married her to give protection...respects her, but then Salima never tried to reach out to the man in him, who is flawed and child like...she also respects him.
Atgah..."hum humare Jalal ko bhi jante hain aur humare Shehanshaah ko bhi", this one line from him says it all...but he died because of Shehanshaah, Adham had said to him before killing, that he was the major obstacle between him and Mughal throne..."Takht relevant"
Adham, Bakshi, Abul mali, Cheapu..I mean Shareef-ud-din, MC...he was talking about them as close family relative, who would not try to kill in other wise normal family, and therefore, the man..but the Shehanshaah..."Takht relevant".
Regarding..."humare haath, humare apno ke khoon se rangein hue hain"...well it was figurative for all those who died saving him or attacking him...Atgah and Adham in recent past..."Takht relevant"
We also should admit and accept that in that moment, Jalal WAS WEAK...he's mentally strong, but the death of Atgah, the punishment meted to Adham, some where even shrieking away of Jodha (though am not too sure about this, because i feel he understood her freaking after seeing him soaked in blood)  and lastly the outburst and curse of MA...all of this in few hours, and sometimes a man can take as much...he was exhausted, out of wits and hollow.
In that moment he was an emotional wreck.
If you listen, Jodha, first disappointingly said, "Sighaasan jalana Mughal sultanate ke liye bahot bada APAMAAN hai" (it implied all you've said here in detail)...but she immediately gauged that this person here was Jalal the man, her husband who was standing in front of her and she addressed solely to HIM...No, Takht involved or relevant here.
Ah!!! how beautifully she cocooned him, caressed him and soothed his burning soul...Jodha sada apne Shehanshaah ke saath rahegi 
If you've a doubt that whether Jalal could've acted on his distraught state words or not...NO...look at him when Jodha nestled him..you yourself had said, "he reaches up to  cradle her cheek in his palm. And when she asserts that Jodha will always be with him,  his face lights up visibly."...
But also HE NODS IN ACCEPTANCE AND AFFIRMATION TO HER
That is what an Ardhangini is...or better in marriage, when one half falters, the other half comes forward to  support and balance such that nothing wrong happens.
Regarding the "curse", my issue is the "Historical" tag attached with the show, things that had already  happened in past and done and dealt with...and therefore, I felt it was insensitive on part of CVs to include such thing from an evil like MA, for not so well informed viewers and also sadly, but true...negativity is picked up faster.
As for performances...am tired of saying that RT is brilliant...but on Friday PS also shone in her part.


*Copying from my IF's post response.

sashashyam
Glittering Gold
Glittering Gold

Posts : 855
Join date : 2013-08-01

Back to top Go down

Re: Jodha Akbar 318: Imperial escapism

Post by sashashyam on 2014-09-02, 12:23

i too have every intention of watching, Mandy  dearest, but this Jalal is even worse  that his Majnu avatar. He is like a hollow man, wandering about the palace like a zombie. Shyamalamandygi wrote:shyamala all i can hope for at the moment is wait for the rest of the epis after watching a strong jalal its hard to digest or see him break down, i will wait and watch how the next week goes!

sashashyam
Glittering Gold
Glittering Gold

Posts : 855
Join date : 2013-08-01

Back to top Go down

Re: Jodha Akbar 318: Imperial escapism

Post by mishti on 2014-09-02, 13:32

Aunty, did you watch the precap?...I was reminded of Dilip Saheb watching the precap....voice modulation, standing posture and hand maneuvering by RT was resembling him.

mishti
Newbie
Newbie

Posts : 62
Join date : 2014-04-22

Back to top Go down

Re: Jodha Akbar 318: Imperial escapism

Post by sashashyam on 2014-09-02, 15:42

I had not thought of it that way, Mishti, but now that you mention it, there are definite shades of Dilip Kumar.  I am glad Rajat is inspired only by the best!Shyamala Auntymishti wrote:Aunty, did you watch the precap?...I was reminded of Dilip Saheb watching the precap....voice modulation, standing posture and hand maneuvering by RT was resembling him.

sashashyam
Glittering Gold
Glittering Gold

Posts : 855
Join date : 2013-08-01

Back to top Go down

Re: Jodha Akbar 318: Imperial escapism

Post by mandygi on 2014-09-03, 03:39

shyamala i keep loosing the password! phew got a new one! second epi of the week and so flat and flavor less! i guess the whole team is resting after so much action and happenening and so many intense scenes..especially our little boy rajat who looked tired in the dek scene seems like he just had a nap or was deprived of sleep..poor baby needs some rest but we just want to watch him and nothing else..i ff all the rest but that actress BB was really good even shariffu did well the rest looked tired!

mandygi
Bronzie
Bronzie

Posts : 288
Join date : 2014-05-01

Back to top Go down

Re: Jodha Akbar 318: Imperial escapism

Post by sashashyam on 2014-09-03, 14:12



I agree completely with all that you have noted, Mandy dear. Yes, Bakshi Banu looked much better when she is worn out and tense than when she is all decked up.

I liked the little bit about Jalal insisting that he would be present when Jodha's delivery took place. This thing, the father being present, is a modern fad, which was opposed by many gynaec-surgeons in its early days.Their main complaint was that the husband often fainted and created unnecessary problems for the doctor and his/her team! hpee

Mandy, thanks a million for putting me on to Airlines. Mother and I watched the 2 episodes telecast so far, and we both loved them. I like the idea of  a woman pilot as the main protagonist, and  I like the girl who plays her - she is tall and queenly and reserved, but she has a delightful smile. I loved the diplomatic way in which she used Captain Rathore's  qualifications to soothe the panicky passengers and to please him no end as well. 

Best of all, in the first episode, when she  begins to make that emergency landing, her face is suddenly calm, totally focussed, and in a way joyful at having got into the groove for that tricky maneouvre. It was a Zen like expression, which is athletes and pilots call "being in the zone", when your mind and body are in perfect sync.

I would strongly recommend the new Zee weekend show "Neeli Chatriwaale", 8-9 pm on Saturdays and Sundays. It is delightful, the interaction between a harried , painfully honest and thus unsuccessful Kanpur-based salesman for male underwear hpee , called Bhagwandas Choubey, and the Lord Shiva, who  is played by the actor who is just winding up as the Lord Buddha. Don’t miss it!

Shyamala

mandygishyamala i keep loosing the password! phew got a new one! second epi of the week and so flat and flavor less! i guess the whole team is resting after so much action and happenening and so many intense scenes..especially our little boy rajat who looked tired in the dek scene seems like he just had a nap or was deprived of sleep..poor baby needs some rest but we just want to watch him and nothing else..i ff all the rest but that actress BB was really good even shariffu did well the rest looked tired!

sashashyam
Glittering Gold
Glittering Gold

Posts : 855
Join date : 2013-08-01

Back to top Go down

Re: Jodha Akbar 318: Imperial escapism

Post by mandygi on 2014-09-04, 11:26

shyamala, i am glad that you loved airlines! i too loved that scene the way she made the announcement, and i love tulip joshi, have seen her in few punjabi films...a good actress and this role suits her! i will watch the show u mentioned and then let you know about it..and about JA i feel that it will keep going yo yo between good and bad tracks and on the whole it might just manage to float and i think rajat will bounce back with a bang once well rested!

mandygi
Bronzie
Bronzie

Posts : 288
Join date : 2014-05-01

Back to top Go down

Re: Jodha Akbar 318: Imperial escapism

Post by Sponsored content Today at 04:38


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum