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Jodha wins the Crown : Ruku bites the dust... literally

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Jodha wins the Crown : Ruku bites the dust... literally

Post by --sumana13-- on 2014-10-27, 12:44




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Re: Jodha wins the Crown : Ruku bites the dust... literally

Post by --sumana13-- on 2014-10-27, 12:50


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Re: Jodha wins the Crown : Ruku bites the dust... literally

Post by Abavi on 2014-10-27, 12:53

Thanks for the pics Mannu...

History says that Ruks was a more powerful figure to Salim than his own mother..

May be all that is looking good might not be really so.. At this point, no one can say who got the better deal.. Jo gets to administrate, Ruks gets to raise the heir who happens to be Jo's son..

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Re: Jodha wins the Crown : Ruku bites the dust... literally

Post by --sumana13-- on 2014-10-27, 13:00

Abavi wrote:Thanks for the pics Mannu...

History says that Ruks was a more powerful figure to Salim than his own mother..

May be all that is looking good might not be really so.. At this point, no one can say who got the better deal.. Jo gets to administrate, Ruks gets to raise the heir who happens to be Jo's son..
Jodha becomes the administrator and assists jalal while Ruku grooms the next king..... and Mind you Abavi Ruku brain washed Salim to make her the MUZ of his own son .... the heir to the throne  .. Ruku was MUZ to Shahjahan as documented by History ...
just look at Ruku's planning 
Shocked Shocked Shocked Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad

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Re: Jodha wins the Crown : Ruku bites the dust... literally

Post by Abavi on 2014-10-27, 14:05

--sumana13-- wrote:
Abavi wrote:Thanks for the pics Mannu...

History says that Ruks was a more powerful figure to Salim than his own mother..

May be all that is looking good might not be really so.. At this point, no one can say who got the better deal.. Jo gets to administrate, Ruks gets to raise the heir who happens to be Jo's son..
Jodha becomes the administrator and assists jalal while Ruku grooms the next king..... and Mind you Abavi Ruku brain washed Salim to make her the MUZ of his own son .... the heir to the throne  .. Ruku was MUZ to Shahjahan as documented by History ...
just look at Ruku's planning 
Shocked Shocked Shocked Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad
Mannu, exactly that what I said.. even though now it seems that Ruks bit dust.. It is not so really...

Ruks is in a much better position..

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Re: Jodha wins the Crown : Ruku bites the dust... literally

Post by --sumana13-- on 2014-10-27, 14:22

Abavi wrote:
--sumana13-- wrote:
Abavi wrote:Thanks for the pics Mannu...

History says that Ruks was a more powerful figure to Salim than his own mother..

May be all that is looking good might not be really so.. At this point, no one can say who got the better deal.. Jo gets to administrate, Ruks gets to raise the heir who happens to be Jo's son..
Jodha becomes the administrator and assists jalal while Ruku grooms the next king..... and Mind you Abavi Ruku brain washed Salim to make her the MUZ of his own son .... the heir to the throne  .. Ruku was MUZ to Shahjahan as documented by History ...
just look at Ruku's planning 
Shocked Shocked Shocked Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad
Mannu, exactly that what I said.. even though now it seems that Ruks bit dust.. It is not so really...

Ruks is in a much better position..
Jo is being short sighted and looking at Salim but Ruku is far sighted and looking at the future shehenshah and his son too !!
What a cunning mind shehad Abavi !,

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Re: Jodha wins the Crown : Ruku bites the dust... literally

Post by Abavi on 2014-10-27, 14:29

--sumana13-- wrote:
Abavi wrote:
--sumana13-- wrote:
Abavi wrote:Thanks for the pics Mannu...

History says that Ruks was a more powerful figure to Salim than his own mother..

May be all that is looking good might not be really so.. At this point, no one can say who got the better deal.. Jo gets to administrate, Ruks gets to raise the heir who happens to be Jo's son..
Jodha becomes the administrator and assists jalal while Ruku grooms the next king..... and Mind you Abavi Ruku brain washed Salim to make her the MUZ of his own son .... the heir to the throne  .. Ruku was MUZ to Shahjahan as documented by History ...
just look at Ruku's planning 
Shocked Shocked Shocked Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad
Mannu, exactly that what I said.. even though now it seems that Ruks bit dust.. It is not so really...

Ruks is in a much better position..
Jo is being short sighted and looking at Salim but Ruku is far sighted and looking at the future shehenshah  and his son too !!
What a cunning mind shehad  Abavi !,

No dear she is just being smart (in the show, I mean) and Jo is being shown as a Mahan who will tolerate anything..

In reality, Rukaiyya Begam was a very compassionate woman who had genuine affection for the future king and Jodha Begam was a very able administrator and very "Career oriented" that she had no time to spare for any of her children hpee

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Re: Jodha wins the Crown : Ruku bites the dust... literally

Post by Tanthya on 2014-10-27, 14:40

Abavi wrote:
--sumana13-- wrote:
Abavi wrote:
--sumana13-- wrote:
Jodha becomes the administrator and assists jalal while Ruku grooms the next king..... and Mind you Abavi Ruku brain washed Salim to make her the MUZ of his own son .... the heir to the throne  .. Ruku was MUZ to Shahjahan as documented by History ...
just look at Ruku's planning 
Shocked Shocked Shocked Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad
Mannu, exactly that what I said.. even though now it seems that Ruks bit dust.. It is not so really...

Ruks is in a much better position..
Jo is being short sighted and looking at Salim but Ruku is far sighted and looking at the future shehenshah  and his son too !!
What a cunning mind shehad  Abavi !,

No dear she is just being smart (in the show, I mean) and Jo is being shown as a Mahan who will tolerate anything..

In reality, Rukaiyya Begam was a very compassionate woman who had genuine affection for the future king and Jodha Begam was a very able administrator and very "Career oriented" that she had no time to spare for any of her children hpee

It is actually the case of opposites... Jodha was the one who was quite aware of the power structure and played it ( she would have been a fool not to ) whereas Ruqaiyya was in an unassailable position and was never challenged and her farsightedness was such that she also held the respect and affection of Salim ( which was a case of genuine bonding without any ulterior motive)

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Re: Jodha wins the Crown : Ruku bites the dust... literally

Post by Nanayaa623 on 2014-10-27, 15:34

Tanthya wrote:
Abavi wrote:
--sumana13-- wrote:
Abavi wrote:
Mannu, exactly that what I said.. even though now it seems that Ruks bit dust.. It is not so really...

Ruks is in a much better position..
Jo is being short sighted and looking at Salim but Ruku is far sighted and looking at the future shehenshah  and his son too !!
What a cunning mind shehad  Abavi !,

No dear she is just being smart (in the show, I mean) and Jo is being shown as a Mahan who will tolerate anything..

In reality, Rukaiyya Begam was a very compassionate woman who had genuine affection for the future king and Jodha Begam was a very able administrator and very "Career oriented" that she had no time to spare for any of her children hpee

It is actually the case of opposites... Jodha was the one who was quite aware of the power structure and played it ( she would have been a fool not to ) whereas Ruqaiyya was in an unassailable position and was never challenged and her farsightedness was such that she also held the respect and affection of Salim ( which was a case of genuine bonding without any ulterior motive)
My dear friends at the end of the day all being said whether Rukaiya was closed to Salim more or his son and Jodha was more administrative person and Salima also was well in administrative issues Jalal was blessed to have all three of them as his wives.

What was important to me putting aside the Serial and the Flim indutry aside and reading books and other sources.

It was a huge family and a polygamous one too with many dynamics and they all did live and achieved various things by supporting Akbar to be the man that he was and documented in history that even foreigners respected.

And if the other side of history said  Rukaiya raised Jodha son or her grandson who were heirs to the throne the fact still remained that she was childless and did not have children of her own and took pains to raised someone else child either with motives or because she was not bless with her own can also never be known but imagined I guess.

My fascination with MUZ  was because of her background and the polictis of that time and how she managed to achieved all that she did in their mix after marriage to Jalal when all the other Moghual queens here present before she came.

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Re: Jodha wins the Crown : Ruku bites the dust... literally

Post by Tanthya on 2014-10-27, 17:17

Nanayaa623 wrote:
Tanthya wrote:
Abavi wrote:
--sumana13-- wrote:
Jo is being short sighted and looking at Salim but Ruku is far sighted and looking at the future shehenshah  and his son too !!
What a cunning mind shehad  Abavi !,

No dear she is just being smart (in the show, I mean) and Jo is being shown as a Mahan who will tolerate anything..

In reality, Rukaiyya Begam was a very compassionate woman who had genuine affection for the future king and Jodha Begam was a very able administrator and very "Career oriented" that she had no time to spare for any of her children hpee

It is actually the case of opposites... Jodha was the one who was quite aware of the power structure and played it ( she would have been a fool not to ) whereas Ruqaiyya was in an unassailable position and was never challenged and her farsightedness was such that she also held the respect and affection of Salim ( which was a case of genuine bonding without any ulterior motive)
My dear friends at the end of the day all being said whether Rukaiya was closed to Salim more or his son and Jodha was more administrative person and Salima also was well in administrative issues Jalal was blessed to have all three of them as his wives.

What was important to me putting aside the Serial and the Flim indutry aside and reading books and other sources.

It was a huge family and a polygamous one too with many dynamics and they all did live and achieved various things by supporting Akbar to be the man that he was and documented in history that even foreigners respected.

And if the other side of history said  Rukaiya raised Jodha son or her grandson who were heirs to the throne the fact still remained that she was childless and did not have children of her own and took pains to raised someone else child either with motives or because she was not bless with her own can also never be known but imagined I guess.

My fascination with MUZ  was because of her background and the polictis of that time and how she managed to achieved all that she did in their mix after marriage to Jalal when all the other Moghual queens here present before she came.


Nan Love..

She did not manage to achieve all this by herself.. You have to bring in Maan Singh..for some blighted reason, Mayya is more into worshiping the heroine.. but the actual fact is Maan Singh was more respected  and had enough clout to command Jalal's attention.. Plus Jalal respected the house of Amer and Jodha was from that house  but having said that lets not demean Jodha's Astute business sense..She was a thorough corporate woman who knew the power games and how to manage it..That speaks volumes about her intelligence.. It would have been interesting to see how she would have handled the 21st centure..With considerable ease I guess hpee

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Re: Jodha wins the Crown : Ruku bites the dust... literally

Post by Nanayaa623 on 2014-10-27, 18:07

Tanthya you made my head big this morning calling me love. ROFL 

Anyways my dear I understand all the facts being said the fact also remained that Akbar could not have achieved much without all the supporting system he got from Moghuls  clan as well as Amer clan.  So also Ruky could not have managed the harem own her own without supporting system in place.  No one is perfect in totality we need each other and people.

Coming to the fact of who was called Ammi Jaan by Salim is another issue all together.

With family dynamics in play 'IF' there is documented fact that Salim disrespected his own mother and from his early age there must have been reasons but he might have appreciated  and loved His mother when he was of age and understood her well without any manipulations from anyone. If Jalal gave rights to Ruky to raise Salim and he started rebelling against his own father and mother then Ruky failed Jalal terrible and it was Jalal who paid the price for it not Jodha.

I also want to believe that Salim loved and appreciated his own mother when his own son Khusrau revolted against him just like he did who was  also by the way was raised by Ruky which is documented. Salim might have felt the same feelings his father felt and understood the need of Jodha his mother to side and standing by Jalal at that time when his own wife Man Bai stood by his side when his son revolted against him.

So in this family dynamics so many things happened and I guess so many lessens where learned. And that is all that matters. 

Other son of Jodha was different who was raised in Amer for sometime before he came to his mother and was loved by Jalal more than Salim when he turn rebellious. So you see no one had last laugh here especially Ruky who was childless and depend of other's child to call her mother either by snatching the rights or given by Jalal.  Jodha did have many children to feel her void if Salim had created one in the initial stages of his life I guess what about Ruky  the void will still remain till her last breath. So did she set out to destroy her rival son or grandson by wayward behavior?  Then it is Jalal she failed not Jodha.

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Re: Jodha wins the Crown : Ruku bites the dust... literally

Post by --sumana13-- on 2014-10-27, 19:17

Nanayaa623 wrote:Tanthya you made my head big this morning calling me love. ROFL 

Anyways my dear I understand all the facts being said the fact also remained that Akbar could not have achieved much without all the supporting system he got from Moghuls  clan as well as Amer clan.  So also Ruky could not have managed the harem own her own without supporting system in place.  No one is perfect in totality we need each other and people.

Coming to the fact of who was called Ammi Jaan by Salim is another issue all together.

With family dynamics in play 'IF' there is documented fact that Salim disrespected his own mother and from his early age there must have been reasons but he might have appreciated  and loved His mother when he was of age and understood her well without any manipulations from anyone. If Jalal gave rights to Ruky to raise Salim and he started rebelling against his own father and mother then Ruky failed Jalal terrible and it was Jalal who paid the price for it not Jodha.

I also want to believe that Salim loved and appreciated his own mother when his own son Khusrau revolted against him just like he did who was  also by the way was raised by Ruky which is documented. Salim might have felt the same feelings his father felt and understood the need of Jodha his mother to side and standing by Jalal at that time when his own wife Man Bai stood by his side when his son revolted against him.

So in this family dynamics so many things happened and I guess so many lessens where learned. And that is all that matters. 

Other son of Jodha was different who was raised in Amer for sometime before he came to his mother and was loved by Jalal more than Salim when he turn rebellious. So you see no one had last laugh here especially Ruky who was childless and depend of other's child to call her mother either by snatching the rights or given by Jalal.  Jodha did have many children to feel her void if Salim had created one in the initial stages of his life I guess what about Ruky  the void will still remain till her last breath. So did she set out to destroy her rival son or grandson by wayward behavior?  Then it is Jalal she failed not Jodha.
Awww Nanaya my dear girl ... How awesomely you write yaar
I am a fan of your views and your writing
Clap Clap

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Re: Jodha wins the Crown : Ruku bites the dust... literally

Post by Tanthya on 2014-10-27, 20:26

Nanayaa623 wrote:Tanthya you made my head big this morning calling me love. ROFL 

Anyways my dear I understand all the facts being said the fact also remained that Akbar could not have achieved much without all the supporting system he got from Moghuls  clan as well as Amer clan.  So also Ruky could not have managed the harem own her own without supporting system in place.  No one is perfect in totality we need each other and people.

But I do love you long hug

No..Do not overestimate the Amer clan ..but let us not underestimate them too..

Bairam Khan was one important factor who lead the revival of  Mughals and acquired swathes of land , Jalal cemented and expanded it with his conquering instincts, his brilliant and fearless strategies.Ruqaiyya did have people helping her but the point is if the head is a fool..none can do anything..Ruqaiyya had the intelligence,ability to govern and rule and she did it..


Coming to the fact of who was called Ammi Jaan by Salim is another issue all together.

It is a non-issue for me and I am least interested on who got called as Ammi Jaan esp when u consider the fact tht royal era believed in prefixing titles before the actual relationship could be stated.

With family dynamics in play 'IF' there is documented fact that Salim disrespected his own mother and from his early age there must have been reasons but he might have appreciated  and loved His mother when he was of age and understood her well without any manipulations from anyone. If Jalal gave rights to Ruky to raise Salim and he started rebelling against his own father and mother then Ruky failed Jalal terrible and it was Jalal who paid the price for it not Jodha.

ON the contrary..It would have been suicidal for Salim had he dared to disrespect anyone from Royal family..Nope..Salim did not disrespect people overtly..He respected Maryam Zamani right till the end and was devoted to her but it was a devotion sans affection.

Ruqaiyya and Salim raised him but there also was a powerful coterie surrounding Salim who actively instigated him against Akbar.. Second..Akbar did have a long life and Salim was impatient for the crown and he got it at age 36 when normally people get crowned when they get married or after becoming a family man ( both conditions had been fulfilled by Salim) ..Third.. Amir Khusru was also in contention for the crown..

Ruqaiyya did not fail Salim, Jalal did.. Do remember.. Salim as a boy will have to leave the harem once he reaches a certain age and So Salim shifted to Men's quarter and by age 18 Salim had become a drunkard, prone to violence, Sadist  and into bad company. Jalal did indeed pay the price and very bad one at that.


I also want to believe that Salim loved and appreciated his own mother when his own son Khusrau revolted against him just like he did who was  also by the way was raised by Ruky which is documented. Salim might have felt the same feelings his father felt and understood the need of Jodha his mother to side and standing by Jalal at that time when his own wife Man Bai stood by his side when his son revolted against him.

Maan bai did not stand by his side, she committed suicide.It was Noorjahan at the wheels now and Salim was not into reflections but into opium ..He ordered Khusru to be blinded by inserting a wire into his eyes and throw him into prison .. He was denied any treatment for a whole day ..Treatment was given only the next day but pardon NO.. Khusro was imprisoned  and was killed later ...So no, Salim did not learn nor reflect..

So in this family dynamics so many things happened and I guess so many lessens where learned. And that is all that matters. 

Other son of Jodha was different who was raised in Amer for sometime before he came to his mother and was loved by Jalal more than Salim when he turn rebellious. So you see no one had last laugh here especially Ruky who was childless and depend of other's child to call her mother either by snatching the rights or given by Jalal.  Jodha did have many children to feel her void if Salim had created one in the initial stages of his life I guess what about Ruky  the void will still remain till her last breath. So did she set out to destroy her rival son or grandson by wayward behavior?  Then it is Jalal she failed not Jodha.

There were no other SONS of Jodha ..U can check the genelogy of Akbar ..The one you are relating is a popular anecdote concerning Jahangir  and unsubstantiated ..

Ruqaiyya did not have to snatch any children.. The policy of adoption was in force during Humayuns Era ..Jodha had daughters but did she fill the void  or was it filled by Salima..?? Why are you assuming that Ruqaiyya set out to destroy Salim or any children, that is Ekta version which paints Ruqaiyya as the evil woman... Show me one documented historical book which portrays Ruqaiyya in unflattering light..


Another point that shows the estrangement between Salim and Maryam Zamani was..During the Mughal Era..the first lady  of Muhal household and one who would accompany the king would be his mother and not jis wife ..Akbar had his Mother accompany him  but Salim used to take Noor jehan..


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Re: Jodha wins the Crown : Ruku bites the dust... literally

Post by Nanayaa623 on 2014-10-27, 20:49

Tanthya wrote:
Nanayaa623 wrote:Tanthya you made my head big this morning calling me love. ROFL 

Anyways my dear I understand all the facts being said the fact also remained that Akbar could not have achieved much without all the supporting system he got from Moghuls  clan as well as Amer clan.  So also Ruky could not have managed the harem own her own without supporting system in place.  No one is perfect in totality we need each other and people.

But I do love you long hug

No..Do not overestimate the Amer clan ..but let us not underestimate them too..

Bairam Khan was one important factor who lead the revival of  Mughals and acquired swathes of land , Jalal cemented and expanded it with his conquering instincts, his brilliant and fearless strategies.Ruqaiyya did have people helping her but the point is if the head is a fool..none can do anything..Ruqaiyya had the intelligence,ability to govern and rule and she did it..


Coming to the fact of who was called Ammi Jaan by Salim is another issue all together.

It is a non-issue for me and I am least interested on who got called as Ammi Jaan esp when u consider the fact tht royal era believed in prefixing titles before the actual relationship could be stated.

With family dynamics in play 'IF' there is documented fact that Salim disrespected his own mother and from his early age there must have been reasons but he might have appreciated  and loved His mother when he was of age and understood her well without any manipulations from anyone. If Jalal gave rights to Ruky to raise Salim and he started rebelling against his own father and mother then Ruky failed Jalal terrible and it was Jalal who paid the price for it not Jodha.

ON the contrary..It would have been suicidal for Salim had he dared to disrespect anyone from Royal family..Nope..Salim did not disrespect people overtly..He respected Maryam Zamani right till the end and was devoted to her but it was a devotion sans affection.

Ruqaiyya and Salim raised him but there also was a powerful coterie surrounding Salim who actively instigated him against Akbar.. Second..Akbar did have a long life and Salim was impatient for the crown and he got it at age 36 when normally people get crowned when they get married or after becoming a family man ( both conditions had been fulfilled by Salim) ..Third.. Amir Khusru was also in contention for the crown..

Ruqaiyya did not fail Salim, Jalal did.. Do remember.. Salim as a boy will have to leave the harem once he reaches a certain age and So Salim shifted to Men's quarter and by age 18 Salim had become a drunkard, prone to violence, Sadist  and into bad company. Jalal did indeed pay the price and very bad one at that.


I also want to believe that Salim loved and appreciated his own mother when his own son Khusrau revolted against him just like he did who was  also by the way was raised by Ruky which is documented. Salim might have felt the same feelings his father felt and understood the need of Jodha his mother to side and standing by Jalal at that time when his own wife Man Bai stood by his side when his son revolted against him.

Maan bai did not stand by his side, she committed suicide.It was Noorjahan at the wheels now and Salim was not into reflections but into opium ..He ordered Khusru to be blinded by inserting a wire into his eyes and throw him into prison .. He was denied any treatment for a whole day ..Treatment was given only the next day but pardon NO.. Khusro was imprisoned  and was killed later ...So no, Salim did not learn nor reflect..

So in this family dynamics so many things happened and I guess so many lessens where learned. And that is all that matters. 

Other son of Jodha was different who was raised in Amer for sometime before he came to his mother and was loved by Jalal more than Salim when he turn rebellious. So you see no one had last laugh here especially Ruky who was childless and depend of other's child to call her mother either by snatching the rights or given by Jalal.  Jodha did have many children to feel her void if Salim had created one in the initial stages of his life I guess what about Ruky  the void will still remain till her last breath. So did she set out to destroy her rival son or grandson by wayward behavior?  Then it is Jalal she failed not Jodha.

There were no other SONS of Jodha ..U can check the genelogy of Akbar ..The one you are relating is a popular anecdote concerning Jahangir  and unsubstantiated ..

Ruqaiyya did not have to snatch any children.. The policy of adoption was in force during Humayuns Era ..Jodha had daughters but did she fill the void  or was it filled by Salima..?? Why are you assuming that Ruqaiyya set out to destroy Salim or any children, that is Ekta version which paints Ruqaiyya as the evil woman... Show me one documented historical book which portrays Ruqaiyya in unflattering light..

I have read all that facts too and Jodha did love and took her of her own children and not Salima. I for one kept saying for a long time that in a polygamous marriage the wives have to find a common ground and live in Harmony So I don't appreciate Ekta version at all. I believed that Ruky, Salima and Jodha go along very well and supported Akbar very well.

Another point that shows the estrangement between Salim and Maryam Zamani was..During the Mughal Era..the first lady  of Muhal household and one who would accompany the king would be his mother and not jis wife ..Akbar had his Mother accompany him  but Salim used to take Noor jehan..


Well we don't know the factual reasons behind but it is recorded by Salim himself that he paid obeisance to his mother by touching her feet. He records thses instance with a sence of pride, He reference to his motehr was preddeded by epithet 'Hazart' one that is usually reserved for His majesty himself. This demonstrated the amount of respect and love he held for his mother.






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Re: Jodha wins the Crown : Ruku bites the dust... literally

Post by Nanayaa623 on 2014-10-27, 21:11

Tanthya, I love you too. luv

At a young age we do things due to lack of knowledge right Salim was no different.

Looking at what happened how will a young man of his age feel when his own mother side with his father and did not consider his feels too?  It was normal that both mother and son might have been disappointed with each other therefore there might have been a little gab between them. But he must have understood all this issues when he grown  up but by then probably the harm have already been done. And all that was left was to respect and honor and love her in his own way. But mothers love for their own children never dies.  Can you imagine what Jodha might have gone through in her secret chambers when son and father relation fell apart as she loved both. 

It might have been that Rukaiya who remained childless also thought of the need to pamper Salim to win his favour which she did because he did spoke fond of her in his accounts.

These are family issues that happened in a polygamous marriage it can't be avoided. 

Also I kept saying that though Jalal loved Jodha or she was his favourite wife did not mean that all the other wives especially Ruky and Salima were ignored by him in anyway and the women of that time understood this and there where also a lot issues that comes from such practices.

Ekta has focused or narrowed on Akbar's three special wives and  relationship with  each of them and now moving to the family dynamics that followed lets see how it plays out.

From all what I have read all three wives of Akbar were intelligent, smart and full of potential whether of moghul or hindu origin and all is well documented.

It is rather unfortunate that the Serial is full of negative drama and the use of funny ideas to explain events of day to day living of these wonderful people who graced the earth sometime back.

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